Are There Opportunities for Mathematicians in Military Weapon Development?

  • Context: Math 
  • Thread starter Thread starter JG89
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Military
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the potential career opportunities for pure mathematicians in military weapon development, exploring the roles available, educational pathways, and the relevance of mathematics in defense-related research and development.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the military primarily relies on defense contractors for weapon development rather than conducting it directly.
  • There are inquiries about the specific roles that pure mathematicians might hold within military contexts, with mentions of cryptography and algorithm development for data analysis.
  • Some participants propose that studying applied mathematics or mathematical physics may be more beneficial for a career in military research labs.
  • Concerns are raised about the enjoyment of studying engineering versus mathematics, with some expressing a desire to focus solely on mathematics while still wanting to be involved in weapons development.
  • Participants mention that knowledge of physics and engineering principles is crucial for modeling and understanding military systems, suggesting that pure mathematics alone may not suffice.
  • There are references to specific military research labs, such as the US Army Research Lab and the Naval Research Lab, which employ mathematicians for various projects.
  • One participant shares their experience of being advised to pursue a combination of applied mathematics and electrical engineering for better job prospects in the defense industry.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of engineering knowledge for a career in military weapon development, with some advocating for a hybrid approach of mathematics and engineering, while others emphasize the potential for pure mathematicians to contribute in specific roles.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the importance of practical experience and communication skills in addition to mathematical knowledge, highlighting the need to engage with real-world engineering problems.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in pursuing careers in military research, particularly those with backgrounds in mathematics or engineering, may find this discussion relevant.

JG89
Messages
724
Reaction score
1
Hey all,

I've made a thread before asking for jobs for pure mathematicians in the defense industry. I was told that I could work for the Canadian equivalent of the NSA.

I don't think I would like to work for the NSA. I was wondering if there are jobs in the military for pure mathematicians to actually work on developing weapons?

And if so, how would I go about getting set on this career path?

Thanks a bunch!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Usually, the military does rather little in the development of weapons. It's defense contractors that do that.
 
Do they usually hire pure mathematicians? If they do, what are their jobs?
 
The various research labs are what you want to look into. Canadians have their own versions of the Amy Rsearch Lab etc.

Mathematicians would work on analytical solutions to various problems and/or do computer modelling.

Von Newmann worked for/at BRL
 
Would it be advisable for me to study applied mathematics then? Or maybe even mathematical physics?
 
JG89 said:
Do they usually hire pure mathematicians? If they do, what are their jobs?

Cryptography and creating algorithms for analyzing data (meaning everything from internet trafic to radar/sonar echoes) are two examples that come to mind.
 
JG89 said:
Would it be advisable for me to study applied mathematics then? Or maybe even mathematical physics?

Forgive me if I sounded like I was a mathematician. My PhD is in physics, not math.

I feel that any of those options would be equally viable for a position in a military research lab. If you want a hard answer, you should try to contact a person who already works for a Canadian research lab and get their guidance. How old are you?

They probably have summer programs available if you are young, internships if you are in college and post-docs if you are in grad school.
 
f95toli said:
Cryptography and creating algorithms for analyzing data (meaning everything from internet trafic to radar/sonar echoes) are two examples that come to mind.

I was hoping for something more involved with weapons.
 
What do you mean by "involved with weapons". Does it have to be designing bigger, better bullets, or could it be somethin along the lines of a rail gun, or an area denial system?
 
  • #10
seycyrus said:
rail gun, or an area denial system?
This is what I'm looking for.

By the way, I'm 19 years old, turning 20 in November.
 
  • #11
Then you should study engineering, not math.

Intelligence agencies such as the NSA are generally speaking never directly involved in developing weapons (although they can of course fund R&D); that is almost exclusively done by defence contractors.
 
  • #12
The only problem with studying engineering is that I wouldn't enjoy it at all.

I only want to study maths, so I was hoping that mathematicians can have a career in weapons development, even if it's just dealing with the math side of things (solving equations etc )
 
  • #13
I would think that the military would have a high demand for mathematicians since they have a lot of trouble counting things, like WMDs for example.

Seriously though, if you want to work on military development then engineering is the way to go. Thats not to say that you can't do it with a math degree but its going to be much more difficult finding a job.

Why not a hybrid of the two? A couple of the math professors at my school got their degrees in ME. They mostly do work in mathematical analysis and numerical methods. (FEM, FDM, etc).
 
  • #14
In the US the Army Research Lab, NRL, and ARL are working on things such as directed energy weapons, rail guns etc.

They ARE employing mathematicians. Contact your Canadian analogue.
 
  • #15
JG89 said:
The only problem with studying engineering is that I wouldn't enjoy it at all.

I only want to study maths, so I was hoping that mathematicians can have a career in weapons development, even if it's just dealing with the math side of things (solving equations etc )

Hi JG89, to develop weapons, you need to have some knowledge and insight in physics and engineering. If you only know how to solve equations, it would be very hard for you to have the career you want IMHO, because you need to know how to model the physics and the system response.

What kind of mathematics do you like? pure/abstract or applied? Why exactly do you think you wouldn't enjoy studying engineering? There are many engineering fields related to defense that are very mathematical (in the applied sense), such as Aerodynamics, Computational Fluid Mechanics used in the design of aircrafts; Guidance and Navigation which require you to know the equation of motion, Kalman filtering and estimation theory; Computational Electromagnetics for radar/antenna design; and of course control theory which can be extremely abstract. But I just can't think of one thing that you don't need some knowledge of physics/engineering.
 
  • #16
To be honest, I haven't been exposed to that much mathematics. I have worked through a good amount of single-variable analysis and a decent amount of linear algebra. I really enjoy analysis though...

What if, when choosing my classes, I pick a lot of applied math courses? Some physics interests me, but I'm worried about taking university physics classes because I only did physics up to grade 11 and I doubt I'm keen enough to study physics on my own. If I studied it from a mathematical point of a view though, that would be interesting. Would this do?
 
  • #17
JG89 said:
To be honest, I haven't been exposed to that much mathematics. I have worked through a good amount of single-variable analysis and a decent amount of linear algebra. I really enjoy analysis though...

What if, when choosing my classes, I pick a lot of applied math courses? Some physics interests me, but I'm worried about taking university physics classes because I only did physics up to grade 11 and I doubt I'm keen enough to study physics on my own. If I studied it from a mathematical point of a view though, that would be interesting. Would this do?

I think you should overcome your fear of physics classes, if you are smart enough to do abstract math, physics shouldn't be like a monster you think it is.
Knowing mathematics is a really good thing, but that alone wouldn't be enough in the defense industry. You will be asked to solve problems that come from real engineering systems on a daily basis. Plus, you need to communicate with your managers and customers from the military. It wouldn't help much if you can only talk to them about manifolds and tangent spaces.
 
  • #18
Just to set the scale, the US Naval Research Lab was (and I think still is) the largest military research laboratory. They have 120 uniformed personnel. That's all.
 
  • #19
If you want you can study math. at the Royal Military College:

http://www.rmcc-cmrc.forces.gc.ca/aca/ac-pe/ug-apc/mcs-mi/index-eng.asp

You should go at the recruiting office for more information.
 
  • #20
Bumping this thread...

I've contacted various weapon contractors. I was advised by someone (not from the company) to do my undergraduate in applied maths with a concentration in electrical engineering, and then do a PhD in engineering.

Would the company even care about the electives that I take for my undergraduate? Because the engineering courses I am taking will be electives...
 

Similar threads

Chemistry Is the NUPOC Program a Viable Path for a BS in Chemistry?
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
How do I get envolved with designing weapons for the military?
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
30K
Does the space industry hire mathematicians?
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
19K
Physics Can a Physics Degree Lead to a Career in Military Weapon Development?
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
Engineering What jobs can I get with a PhD in EE and web development skills?
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
4K
Math Career opportunities for Pure or computational mathematics
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
MHB Math Jobs: Find Opportunities for Pure & Applied Maths
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
Engineering Trouble with choosing how to shape my engineering career
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
Job Skills Should I go back to school? How do I progress from here?
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Job Skills Possibilities of a Career in Physics/Engineering
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
5K