Are these matrix definitions correct for the Dirac equation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the correctness of matrix definitions related to the Dirac equation, particularly in the context of the Hydrogen atom. Participants explore the implications of these definitions, the relationship between the Dirac and Schrödinger equations, and the nature of solutions to the relativistic Hydrogen Dirac equation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that the equations presented are general and do not imply a plane wave, suggesting that the Laplacian in the Schrödinger equation represents momentum squared.
  • Another participant questions the premise of the Dirac equation describing waves, noting that the Laplace operator can be expressed in multiple coordinate systems.
  • Concerns are raised about the existence of an analogous solution for the Hydrogen Dirac equation compared to the Schrödinger equation, with one participant stating that the Dirac equation is not an analogue of the Schrödinger equation despite superficial similarities.
  • Discussion includes the need for boundary conditions in both equations, highlighting that both extend from zero to infinity and utilize exponential functions that vanish at infinity.
  • One participant elaborates on the structure of the Dirac equation, emphasizing the necessity of a four-component spinor and the differences in energy frequencies between the Dirac and Schrödinger equations.
  • Another participant presents matrix definitions for the Dirac equation and questions their symbolic correctness, referencing specific matrices for the alpha and beta components.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the Dirac equation and its relationship to the Schrödinger equation, with no consensus reached on whether an analogous solution exists for the Hydrogen Dirac equation. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correctness of the matrix definitions presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the Laplace operator across different coordinate systems and the implications of boundary conditions in quantum mechanics. There is also mention of the need for further references to clarify the relationship between the equations discussed.

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Hydrogen normalized position wavefunctions in spherical coordinates:
\Psi_{n \ell m}\left(r,\theta,\phi\right) = \sqrt{{\left( \frac{2}{n r_1} \right)}^3 \frac{\left(n - \ell - 1\right)!}{2n\left[\left(n + \ell\right)!\right]}} e^{-\frac{r}{n r_1}} \left({2r \over {n r_1}}\right)^{\ell} L_{n - \ell - 1}^{2 \ell + 1}\left(\rho\right) \cdot Y_{\ell}^{m}\left(\theta, \phi\right)

Time independent Schrödinger equation:
i \hbar \frac{\partial \Psi\left(\mathbf{r},\,t\right)}{\partial t} = -\frac{\hbar^2}{2m} \nabla^2 \Psi\left(\mathbf{r},\,t\right) + V\left(\mathbf{r}\right)\Psi\left(\mathbf{r},\,t\right)<br /> \end{equation*}

Three dimensional Laplace operator:
\nabla^2 \Psi\left(\mathbf{r},\,t\right) = \frac{1}{r^2 \sin \theta} \left[\sin \theta \frac{d}{dr} \left(r^2 \frac{d\Psi}{dr}\right) + \frac{d}{d \theta}\left(\sin \theta \frac{d \Psi}{d\theta}\right) + \frac{1}{\sin \theta} \frac{d^2 \Psi}{d\phi^2}\right]

Differential time independent Hydrogen Schrödinger equation:
E\left(r\right) \Psi \left(r,\theta,\phi\right) = - \frac{\hbar^2}{2 \mu} \frac{1}{r^2 \sin \theta} \left[\sin \theta \frac{d}{dr} \left(r^2 \frac{d\Psi}{dr}\right) + \frac{d}{d \theta}\left(\sin \theta \frac{d \Psi}{d\theta}\right) + \frac{1}{\sin \theta} \frac{d^2 \Psi}{d\phi^2}\right] + U\left(r\right)\Psi \left(r,\theta,\phi\right)

Relativistic Dirac equation:
i \hbar \frac{\partial \Psi\left(\mathbf{r},t\right)}{\partial t} = \left(\beta mc^2 + \sum_{k = 1}^3 \alpha_k p_k \, c\right) \Psi \left(\mathbf{r},t\right) + V\left(\mathbf{r}\right)\Psi\left(\mathbf{r},\,t\right)<br /> \end{equation*}

If the Schrödinger equation Laplace operator is describing a plane wave in spherical coordinates, what type of wave and coordinates does the relativistic Dirac equation describe?

What is the solution to the relativistic Hydrogen Dirac equation that is analogous to the differential time independent Hydrogen Schrödinger equation?
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Reference:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/hydsch.html"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_atom#Mathematical_summary_of_eigenstates_of_hydrogen_atom"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger_equation"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirac_equation"
 
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These equations are general, there's no implication that a plane wave is involved. The Laplacian in the Schrödinger equation is momentum squared. To make the Dirac Equation look analogous replace pk by ∇k and specialize to spherical coordinates.

For the Dirac Equation for a Coulomb field, a separation-of-variables solution can be found. The angular part is a Ylm with half-integer m.
 
So you seek answers to the 2 questions ? Well, the first doesn't make too much sense to me, because the Laplace operator can be expressed roughly in 12 different coordinate systems (check out Morse & Feshbach's 2 volumes from the 1950s), in all of which the variables can be separated, so that the <spherical ones> are by no means special, except probably for the H-atom.

OTOH, what makes you think Dirac's equation(s) describe waves ?

For your second question, if you haven't found the answer on Wikipedia, then it must not exist. :) Just kidding, IIRC Messiah's second volume contains a useful discussion, one (I don't remember which) of Greiner's volumes also and most certainly other sources as well (Input is welcome).
 
dextercioby said:
For your second question, if you haven't found the answer on Wikipedia, then it must not exist. :) Just kidding, IIRC Messiah's second volume contains a useful discussion, one (I don't remember which) of Greiner's volumes also and most certainly other sources as well (Input is welcome).

Bethe and Salpeter has a fairly detailed treatment. So do some quantum-chemistry textbooks (provided they deal with relativistic theory at all), one is Piela's recent "Ideas of Quantum Chemistry".


I'm not sure about the premise of the question here. There really isn't any 'analogous' solution for the Hydrogen Dirac equation, because the Dirac equation isn't an analogue of the Schrödinger equation. It just looks similar.
 
Similar point is that the boundary conditions (radial) of Schrödinger and Dirac equations are from zero to infinity.
(Because both of them use the exponential function, which becomes zero at infinity.)

So the de Broglie's relations are applied to match this boundary condition.

Different point is that Dirac equation needs four component spinor.
Usual Dirac equation needs all four components to express one state.
But Dirac euqation for hydrogen contains two states (l = j + 1/2 and l = j - 1/2) in one four component spinor.
So one is real and another is imaginary.
(Of course, only one of them can not get the solution.)

Most different thing is that the frequencies (= differentiation by time t) are completely different in them.
Because Dirac equation includes great rest mass energy of

mc^{2}

So the energy (=frequency) is much greater than that of Schrödinger equation, though the relativistic effect of hydrogen atom is very small.
( Of course, the momentum parts of them are similar. But which frequency is real ? )
 

I tried to extrapolate the following equations from references.

Dirac equation:
i \hbar \frac{\partial \Psi\left(\mathbf{r},t\right)}{\partial t} = \left(\beta mc^2 + \sum_{k = 1}^3 \alpha_k p_k \, c\right) \Psi \left(\mathbf{r},t\right) + V\left(\mathbf{r}\right) \Psi\left(\mathbf{r},\,t\right)

Pauli matrices:
\alpha_k = \left(\begin{array}{cc} 0 &amp; \sigma_k \\ \sigma_k &amp; 0 \\ \end{array}\right)_k

\beta = \left(\begin{array}{cc} 0 &amp; I_{2} \\ I_{2} &amp; 0 \\ \end{array}\right)

Dirac momentum:
p_k = -i \hbar \nabla_k

Relativistic Hydrogen Dirac equation:
E\left(r\right) \Psi \left(r,\theta,\phi\right) = \left(\left(\begin{array}{cc} 0 &amp; I_{2} \\ I_{2} &amp; 0 \\ \end{array}\right) m_{e} c^2 - i \hbar c \sum_{k = 1}^3 \left(\begin{array}{cc} 0 &amp; \sigma_k \\ \sigma_k &amp; 0 \\ \end{array}\right)_k \nabla_k\right) \Psi \left(r,\theta,\phi\right) + U\left(r\right) \Psi\left(r,\theta,\phi\right)

Is this equation symbolically correct at this point?

According to reference 2, the matrix definitions are:
\alpha_1 = \left(\begin{array}{cccc} 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 1 \\ 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 1 &amp; 0 \\ 0 &amp; 1 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 \\ 1 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 \\ \end{array}\right)

\alpha_2 = \left(\begin{array}{cccc} 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; -i \\ 0 &amp; 0 &amp; i &amp; 0 \\ 0 &amp; -i &amp; 0 &amp; 0 \\ i &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 \\ \end{array}\right)

\alpha_3 = \left(\begin{array}{cccc} 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 1 &amp; 0 \\ 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; -1 \\ 1 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 \\ 0 &amp; -1 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 \\ \end{array}\right)

\beta = \left(\begin{array}{cccc} 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 1 &amp; 0 \\ 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 1 \\ 1 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 \\ 0 &amp; 1 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 \\ \end{array}\right)
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Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirac_equation"
http://www.fermentmagazine.org/seminar/dirac.pdf"
http://www7b.biglobe.ne.jp/~kcy05t/dirachy.html"
 
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