Are these predictions about the Pacific coastline true or just a coincidence?

[moving finger]

i don't need to explain biological, you know what biological is, that is a good enough definition of free will, if you want me to define every single word, then this will get no where, but i can if you think that will help. :P

Sorry, I am not deliberately being pedantic or obstructive, but I believe this is important.

Biological according to my dictionary is "pertaining to living things", but this then begs the question : What is a living thing? and whether machines could one day ever be construed to be living things.

"Biological" to you may mean "organic life-form based on DNA, proteins etc", whereas there may be evolved lifeforms on other worlds which believe themselves to have free will yet they are silicon-based rather than carbon-based. Would you claim they do not have free will simply because of their chemistry?

MF

 

[TheUnknown]

Sorry, I am not deliberately being pedantic or obstructive, but I believe this is important.

Biological according to my dictionary is "pertaining to living things", but this then begs the question : What is a living thing? and whether machines could one day ever be construed to be living things.

"Biological" to you may mean "organic life-form based on DNA, proteins etc", whereas there may be evolved lifeforms on other worlds which believe themselves to have free will yet they are silicon-based rather than carbon-based. Would you claim they do not have free will simply because of their chemistry?

MF

No a machine could never ever be constructed to be a living thing, EVER, if it were then it would be living, and would then not be a machine :)(also what machine are we talking about? if you create a machine from all biological matter, then it is in a sense, a frankenstien, and it is a living thing, and it is not scrap metal and silicon.) No i believe that any intelligent living being that has emotions, a conscience and understand the realms of phsycology and phylosophy, and are aware of their conscience has free will... as far as living things go... again for time travel, all matter, not just living things must have free actions to be placed anywhere throughout the galaxy because of any chance happening in a multiverse(universe) different than ours, so free will must be asserted to all living creatures that are able to go back in time and feel emotions that may cause them to do something that is not in a "self consistent scenario"... and the universe must be givin free action to displace itself nonsequentially(or sequentially? now we get into the question if there are multiverses and all histories must be different, then why does the big bang necessarily always have to occur at the same point in time in every universe?) randomly throughout the mulitverse.

 

[moving finger]

this is what i am explaining to you(or trying to to :-/), humans are not built to do what they do, we take it upon ourselves to figure out problems, a machine is simply a reincarnation of a false human, what humans percieve as free will, and they will never be able to amount to a human in all aspect of life, they can only be built for certain specifications.

In other words, humans are flexible and adaptable. I agree.
But why do you insist that it will never be possible for a machine to also be flexible and adaptable in the same way?

a biological entity, is any living breathing being (plant/anima/microbial, or of any aspect of life that is consistent with being biological)that lives off of and uses it's surroundings to survive and is created biologically, and consists 100% of biological substance.

Sorry, circular definition again. Defining biological as any being which consists of 100% biological substance gets us nowhere (it’s like defining a circle as a thing which is circular).

"... could imply humans are built..." humans are simply not built...

But you see, I think humans are built. Humans do not suddenly and miraculously “come into existence”. Humans are built by and according to the designs encoded in our DNA, starting from the first seeds or sperm and egg. At some stage during this construction process (actually a long time after birth), humans start to think and start to believe that they maybe have free will (but where is their free will prior to them starting to think? It does not exist)

Should i call a biological entity a universal intelligent entity? what can i call it? i think this definition is quite proper, i just need to find a name or names that correspond with all life anywhere in the universe that could have possibly evolved from any type of substance or matter.

I do not think free will should be defined in terms of the entities or agents that are endowed with free will. Free will should be a universal property, and an agent either has free will or it does not, according to the definition. Whether it is a biological agent or not should make no difference. Free will is a property that an agent possesses regardless of it’s chemistry, it’s origins or background.

heck that sounds good enough... any life anywhere in the universe that evolved from any substance or matter that is naturally produced and reproduced, and is aware of it's conscience? something along those lines, help me out, i think i almost have it. :) I'm not that bright, you know...

Now you need to define life, and you will undoubtedly claim that a machine can never be alive (and I will disagree).

i need some help on this.

I’m afraid you may find my help limited, because you and I seem to have different fundamental beliefs. I cannot help you to construct a definition of free will which I think is incorrect. I see no reason why free will must be limited to “biological” agents or “intelligent” agents or “living” agents. Free will is not restricted to these types of agents.

MF

 

[TheUnknown]

ah biological entity definition... you said "Sorry, circular definition again. Defining biological as any being which consists of 100% biological substance gets us nowhere (it’s like defining a circle as a thing which is circular)." i was just simply defining it for you, since you asked, i didn't mean anything by it... and well a circle is a thing which is curcular in structure containing no edges or points, with no beginning and no end.

 

[moving finger]

No a machine could never ever be constructed to be a living thing, EVER, if it were then it would be living, and would then not be a machine :)

Oh dear. I believe that humans are machines. Before we can agree whether a machine could ever be alive, we need to agree what we mean by life. This could get very tricky, given that some lifeforms (viruses for example) can exist as purely passive chemicals for long periods of time.

(also what machine are we talking about? if you create a machine from all biological matter, then it is in a sense, a frankenstien, and it is a living thing, and it is not scrap metal and silicon.) No i believe that any intelligent living being that has emotions, a conscience and understand the realms of phsycology and phylosophy, and are aware of their conscience has free will... as far as living things go... again for time travel, all matter, not just living things must have free actions to be placed anywhere throughout the galaxy because of any chance happening in a multiverse(universe) different than ours, so free will must be asserted to all living creatures that are able to go back in time and feel emotions that may cause them to do something that is not in a "self consistent scenario"... and the universe must be givin free action to displace itself wherever it may be.

and I believe that a machine can (in principle) have emotions, conscience, understanding, etc etc, all the things you have described above. There is nothing "holy" about biological organisms which gives them the exclusive right to these properties.

MF

 

[TheUnknown]

"But you see, I think humans are built. Humans do not suddenly and miraculously “come into existence”. Humans are built by and according to the designs encoded in our DNA, starting from the first seeds or sperm and egg. At some stage during this construction process (actually a long time after birth), humans start to think and start to believe that they maybe have free will (but where is their free will prior to them starting to think? It does not exist)"

But this cannot be true... if we were created then our only creator must be God, or you run into a paradox... if aliens(not saying you said this, but hear me out) created us as an experiment, or seeded us here, then how did they get here? either way you look at it, there has to be free will involved, so i cannot stop my attempt to define free will because of the above statement. regardless if we have it or not, there must still be a definition of it. But that does not mean we could not go back into time and kill our mother before she was born, so the multiverse theory still stands true. So we do have some sort of free action/will inside of us if time travel exists.

 

[TheUnknown]

if you create a "machine" that is living... and it is biological... then in my eyes it is no longer a machine, it is a hybrid of some sort or a newly created biological entity, which lives, and is created in our image(just as God says in the Bible, do you think the Bible was placed here by aliens?)... and if it has all of the "free will multiverse theory" characteristics then indeed i now classify it as a biological entity, and it now has free will, just as we do. but be aware that these debates do not conflict... once you give a machine a biological brain, it now has free will... if a machine is restrained to metal and electricity, it will never have free will.

 

[Garth]

I believe that a machine can (in principle) have emotions, conscience, understanding, etc etc, all the things you have described above. There is nothing "holy" about biological organisms which gives them the exclusive right to these properties.
MF

You may well be right, but until a machine is built that can demonstrate these properties of emotion, conscience, understanding, etc. you are simply stating an article of faith, just as one is doing who believes biological organisms are in some sense 'holy' .

Such a machine will have to demonstrate these properties to be original rather than simply a clever emulation of human consciousness. I can program my computer to print, "I love you", "I feel depressed" or "What is the meaning of life?" without there being any such emotion or thought.

Garth

 

[TheUnknown]

You may well be right, but until a machine is built that can demonstrate these properties of emotion, conscience, understanding, etc. you are simply stating an article of faith, just as one is doing who believes biological organisms are in some sense 'holy' .

Such a machine will have to demonstrate these properties to be original rather than simply a clever emulation of human consciousness. I can program my computer to print, "I love you", "I feel depressed" or "What is the meaning of life?" without there being any such emotion or thought.

Garth

this is also what all of my previous post are pertaining to, it may be able to simulate these things, but it's not really feeling emotion, and there it is not conscience of it's conscience, i think that is the key.

 

[moving finger]

You may well be right, but until a machine is built that can demonstrate these properties of emotion, conscience, understanding, etc. you are simply stating an article of faith, just as one is doing who believes biological organisms are in some sense 'holy' .

which is why i prefaced my comment with "I believe"

Such a machine will have to demonstrate these properties to be original rather than simply a clever emulation of human consciousness. I can program my computer to print, "I love you", "I feel depressed" or "What is the meaning of life?" without there being any such emotion or thought.

Agreed. I see no reason why this should not, in principle, be possible.

MF

 

[moving finger]

But this cannot be true... if we were created then our only creator must be God, or you run into a paradox...

I think you are talking here about the “original creation” of life/humans etc, and not the creation of each individual human? Or are you suggesting that something called God creates each and every human?

if aliens(not saying you said this, but hear me out) created us as an experiment, or seeded us here, then how did they get here?

I am not suggesting that the first humans were produced by a seed planted by aliens. I was talking about how each individual human is produced – each human grows from a seed created by a sperm and an egg, and the entire design of our bodies is contained in the DNA within that seed.

either way you look at it, there has to be free will involved, so i cannot stop my attempt to define free will because of the above statement.

Nope, I don’t see why there “has to be” free will involved.

regardless if we have it or not, there must still be a definition of it. But that does not mean we could not go back into time and kill our mother before she was born, so the multiverse theory still stands true. So we do have some sort of free action/will inside of us if time travel exists.

The multiverse theory may be true, but I still see no reason why it must be connected with free will.

if you create a "machine" that is living... and it is biological... then in my eyes it is no longer a machine,

OK. But in my eyes even human beings are machines. Just because humans are biological does not mean that they are not machines.

it is a hybrid of some sort or a newly created biological entity, which lives, and is created in our image(just as God says in the Bible, do you think the Bible was placed here by aliens?)

No, I believe the bible was written by humans. What does this have to do with anything we are discussing here?

... and if it has all of the "free will multiverse theory" characteristics then indeed i now classify it as a biological entity, and it now has free will, just as we do. but be aware that these debates do not conflict... once you give a machine a biological brain, it now has free will... if a machine is restrained to metal and electricity, it will never have free will.

I disagree. But I think we are simply repeating ourselves now. You are entitled to your beliefs, but I think you overestimate the importance of biology and underestimate the power of machines.

MF

 

[TheUnknown]

I think you are talking here about the “original creation” of life/humans etc, and not the creation of each individual human? Or are you suggesting that something called God creates each and every human?


I am not suggesting that the first humans were produced by a seed planted by aliens. I was talking about how each individual human is produced – each human grows from a seed created by a sperm and an egg, and the entire design of our bodies is contained in the DNA within that seed.


Nope, I don’t see why there “has to be” free will involved.


The multiverse theory may be true, but I still see no reason why it must be connected with free will.


OK. But in my eyes even human beings are machines. Just because humans are biological does not mean that they are not machines.


No, I believe the bible was written by humans. What does this have to do with anything we are discussing here?


I disagree. But I think we are simply repeating ourselves now. You are entitled to your beliefs, but I think you overestimate the importance of biology and underestimate the power of machines.

MF

underestimate the power of machines? no, the power of machines can never be greater than humans, because humans create them with what they can and cannot do, and a machine will never have emotions, carry on intense and maticulous relationships with other humans or machines, smell, taste, have sex, reproduce, grow hair, understand logic, be conscience of it's conscience, phylosophize about phylosophy, understand physics in depth, question physics, question time travel, and question whether machines can ever be as smart as humans... i put my view to rest :) you can get the last word if you wish. and my final conclusion on this particular subject is that, if time travel exists, free will exists, no matter how much you don't want to believe it, or argue against it, because a universe with no self consistent restrictions, is a universe with free will for all, even those coming from other universes who are allowed to inerfere.

 

[TheUnknown]

i just wanted to note, that the whole time you kept talking about evolving extra terrestrial entities consisting of a siliconic DNA(evolution) and then saying that us, humans just appeared... i don't know if you're hell bent on making this theory sound incorrect but all logic and anthropology shows the history of human beings back millions of years.. but you say we just appeared, or you believe that, so you have contradicted yourself many times, but i have just tried to answer it all to the ebst of my knowledge... seems more like you didn't care whether you kept your side of the debate balanced and consistent or not, you just wanted to make mine look wrong at any cost :P no big problem though, it was fun answering it all, i gained a great deal of knowledge i never knew i had. Thanks for the debate, i enjoyed it, and if you want to go on about anything else, i'd be glad to, i really enjoy debating and further expanding my knowledge.

 

[moving finger]

underestimate the power of machines? no, the power of machines can never be greater than humans, because humans create them with what they can and cannot do

I disagree. Humans can already create machines that outperform humans in most physical and mental tasks. I believe it is only a question of time before humans create a conscious machine.

and a machine will never have emotions,

why not?

carry on intense and maticulous relationships with other humans or machines,

why not?

smell, taste, have sex, reproduce, grow hair, understand logic,

why not?

be conscience of it's conscience, phylosophize about phylosophy, understand physics in depth, question physics, question time travel, and question whether machines can ever be as smart as humans

why not?

I have been trying to help you by showing that these are all unsupported assertions on your part, you have not shown why any of them is necessarily true, but it seems that you choose not to listen.

... i put my view to rest :) you can get the last word if you wish. and my final conclusion on this particular subject is that, if time travel exists, free will exists, no matter how much you don't want to believe it, or argue against it, because a universe with no self consistent restrictions, is a universe with free will for all, even those coming from other universes who are allowed to inerfere.

travel well my friend, you are entitled to your human beliefs, may your god go with you.

MF

 

[moving finger]

i just wanted to note, that the whole time you kept talking about evolving extra terrestrial entities consisting of a siliconic DNA(evolution) and then saying that us, humans just appeared...

I have no idea what you mean here. I never said "siliconic DNA", I said "silicon-based lifeforms", and I never said that "humans just appeared".

i don't know if you're hell bent on making this theory sound incorrect but all logic and anthropology shows the history of human beings back millions of years.. but you say we just appeared, or you believe that, so you have contradicted yourself many times,

Where did I say that humans "just appeared"? Please check, I think you are mistaken.

but i have just tried to answer it all to the ebst of my knowledge... seems more like you didn't care whether you kept your side of the debate balanced and consistent or not, you just wanted to make mine look wrong at any cost :P

it seems you feel aggrieved for some reason. All I was trying to do was to point out the flaws in your logic, but you choose not to listen and instead to believe that I had other motives? You are sadly mistaken.

no big problem though, it was fun answering it all, i gained a great deal of knowledge i never knew i had. Thanks for the debate, i enjoyed it, and if you want to go on about anything else, i'd be glad to, i really enjoy debating and further expanding my knowledge.

Then I am glad about that

MF

 

[TheUnknown]

I disagree. Humans can already create machines that outperform humans in most physical and mental tasks. I believe it is only a question of time before humans create a conscious machine.


why not?


why not?


why not?


why not?

I have been trying to help you by showing that these are all unsupported assertions on your part, you have not shown why any of them is necessarily true, but it seems that you choose not to listen.


travel well my friend, you are entitled to your human beliefs, may your god go with you.

MF

ah you keep missing my point, you will never be able to create a machine with ALL human characteristics, yes i agreed already that you CAN create a machine that can outperform a human in specific areas... but that still has nothing to do with human qualities, elephants can outperform humans, but they are nothing close to human, guerillas can outperform humans, they are much stronger... but they are no where near human in the mind... computers can decipher many things... but are and never will be anywhere near humans... simply put ONE SINGLE Machine cannot experience every realm of the human mind, they will never dream, they will never love, they will never lust, they will never get hungry, they will never get thirsty(and truly feel it because they need it.. again unless they ARE living) it seems i cannot make any logical sense to you on this. Machines will never go jog 2 miles to lose weight, and be depressed because they are fat, machines will never believe in religion and truly understand what it means to some humans, machines will not have families and work, and come home and kiss their wife goodnight and get a feeling of comfort from it... do you see what i am saying? you cannot create a machine out of wires and metal that will out perfrom or even come close to the human mind... it really erks me that people think this is possible.. the only way this is possible would be to create a whole different DNA strand, and watch it come to life as an intelligent being, similar to us... then it is not a machine, it was created, but it is living... you see? ONE MACHINE cannot have ALL living qualities, and never will, simply because of the fact that it cannt experience all the needs of a living thing that needs to eat, drink, poop, pee, have sex, lust, read to get smart, watch t.v., be concerned about friends, go to a funeral because someone old died of their age because their biological clock stopped ticking.

 

[TheUnknown]

sorry.. lol i said you could get the last word didn't I ? :-/ I'll stop now

 

[TheUnknown]

if it doesn't function biologically... it can only be machine.

 

[TheUnknown]

"But you see, I think humans are built. Humans do not suddenly and miraculously “come into existence”. Humans are built by and according to the designs encoded in our DNA, starting from the first seeds or sperm and egg. At some stage during this construction process (actually a long time after birth), humans start to think and start to believe that they maybe have free will (but where is their free will prior to them starting to think? It does not exist)" I'm thinking by suddenly and miraculously come into existence you mean that they have not always been here(on earth?), OR they were placed here? otherwise this is has no meaning.. this would exactly be the reason for humans and machines to be different, machines suddenly and miraculously come into existence because we create them... humans enjoy the mysteries of being alive and biological and they are endowed through lifes natural process with everything we know and enjoy... they start out as sperm and egg, then they develop as an embryo, then they are children, not to smart yet, then they become adults, and they are aware? is this what you mean? do you know any machine that goes through this cycle? thanks for proving my point hehe :)

 

[TheUnknown]

""Biological" to you may mean "organic life-form based on DNA, proteins etc", whereas there may be evolved lifeforms on other worlds which believe themselves to have free will yet they are silicon-based rather than carbon-based. Would you claim they do not have free will simply because of their chemistry?" so aliens can evolve as long as it proves the theory wrong, but humans just come into existent out of no where. And i still don't see how just because their DNA strand would be different becuase they consist of silicon, or silicon is a large part of their biological make up, how that then makes them not elligable to fall under biological entity. is that what you were implying, or were you simply asking me? i mean, of course i would agree they have free will, in my definiton, i stated any "biological entites."

 

[moving finger]

sorry.. lol i said you could get the last word didn't I ? :-/ I'll stop now

yes, sure... will you? really?

just let me know if you would like me to reply to any more of your posts, or whether you prefer to keep having the last word...

MF

 

[moving finger]

Just tying up a few loose ends and resolving some misconceptions in the last few posts :

if it doesn't function biologically... it can only be machine.

All you are saying here is "not all machines function biologically". That is true, but proves nothing relevant to this debate.

"But you see, I think humans are built. Humans do not suddenly and miraculously “come into existence”. Humans are built by and according to the designs encoded in our DNA, starting from the first seeds or sperm and egg. At some stage during this construction process (actually a long time after birth), humans start to think and start to believe that they maybe have free will (but where is their free will prior to them starting to think? It does not exist)"

I'm thinking by suddenly and miraculously come into existence you mean that they have not always been here(on earth?), OR they were placed here?

Please read what I said, TheUnknown. I said Humans do not suddenly and miraculously “come into existence”. I do not know how you get from this statement to your suggestion that “you mean that they have not always been here(on earth?), OR they were placed here?”

otherwise this is has no meaning..

What I meant (and is explained in the subsequent sentence if you bother to read it) was that individual humans (I was not talking about the start of the entire human race) “are built by and according to the designs encoded in our DNA, starting from the first seeds or sperm and egg”.

this would exactly be the reason for humans and machines to be different, machines suddenly and miraculously come into existence because we create them.

Machines do not suddenly and miraculously come into existence. Neither do humans. Both are built.

humans enjoy the mysteries of being alive and biological and they are endowed through lifes natural process with everything we know and enjoy... they start out as sperm and egg, then they develop as an embryo, then they are children, not to smart yet, then they become adults, and they are aware? is this what you mean? do you know any machine that goes through this cycle?

I have never said that any existing machine can do all of the things that a human can do. What I have said is that there is no logical reason to believe (and you have not offered any logical reason to believe) that it might not one day be possible for a machine to do these things. You have simply asserted, without any reasoning or logic or substantiation, that no machine will ever be able to do the things that a human can do.

thanks for proving my point hehe :)

the only point that has been proven is that you have many unsubstantiated beliefs.

""Biological" to you may mean "organic life-form based on DNA, proteins etc", whereas there may be evolved lifeforms on other worlds which believe themselves to have free will yet they are silicon-based rather than carbon-based. Would you claim they do not have free will simply because of their chemistry?"

so aliens can evolve as long as it proves the theory wrong, but humans just come into existent out of no where.

Who says humans come into existence out of nowehere? Are you making this up as you go along?

And i still don't see how just because their DNA strand would be different becuase they consist of silicon, or silicon is a large part of their biological make up, how that then makes them not elligable to fall under biological entity.

I never said it did. I asked you to define what you mean by the word “biological” which you introduced into the discussion, but as with 99% of my questions, you never bothered answering.

is that what you were implying, or were you simply asking me?

I usually try to answer your questions, but as I have said, and as you can usually tell by the question marks after the statements, I have asked you many questions which you simply ignore.

i mean, of course i would agree they have free will, in my definiton, i stated any "biological entites."

But did not define what a biological entity is.

Bye

MF

 

[TheUnknown]

"humans are not built to do what they do, we take it upon ourselves to figure out problems, a machine is simply a reincarnation of a false human, what humans percieve as free will, and they will never be able to amount to a human in all aspect of life, they can only be built for certain specifications. a biological entity, is any living breathing being (plant/anima/microbial, or of any aspect of life that is consistent with being biological)that lives off of and uses it's surroundings to survive and is created biologically, and consists 100% of biological substance." PAGE 8 i think I've discussed everything, you just seem to forget, because you believe machines are better than humans... sad... remember "it's like saying a circle is something that's circular" quote from you... thats's because a circle is something that is circular in nature with no edges or points, with no beginning or end! a BIOLOGICAL entity.. are you folliwng me sir? is a BIOLOGICAL... that's why it has to be 100% BIOLOGICAL to fit under the definition of BIOLOGICAL entity... and that is also why any circular shape with no points or edges, with no beginning or end... still there? falls under CIRCLE... THANK YOU! ENJOY

 

[TheUnknown]

"But you see, I think humans are built. Humans do not suddenly and miraculously “come into existence”. Humans are built by and according to the designs encoded in our DNA, starting from the first seeds or sperm and egg. At some stage during this construction process (actually a long time after birth), humans start to think and start to believe that they maybe have free will (but where is their free will prior to them starting to think? It does not exist)" just to answer one more of your questions.. this is a quote from you... I'm really done discussing now, because it is getting no where, and you are seeming to forget every past thread that either you or I typed. How can i have a debate if you just continue to ask the same questions over and over again that have already been answered? or go into a state of amnesia and forget everything you've ever said?

 

[TheUnknown]

"humans enjoy the ---->mysteries<---- (THERE IS NO MYSTERY SIR... WHEN YOU CREATE A MACHINE OR A COMPUTER, YOU ENDOW IT WITH EVERYTHING IT WILL BE ALLOWED TO DO) of being alive and biological and they are endowed through lifes natural process with everything we know and enjoy... they start out as sperm and egg, then they develop as an embryo, then they are children, not to smart yet, then they become adults, and they are aware? is this what you mean? do you know any machine that goes through this cycle? " you just replied to this saying i have given no reason why machines cannot share all common bonds with humans, seems you didn't read to well. I think you should really go back and read the last 3 pages, i explained many times over, till my fingers were about to fall off, why humans and machines may never experience the same emotions, feelings, dreams, common bonds, needs. (you should also read that quote.. it would save you some time)

 

[TheUnknown]

"Machines do not suddenly and miraculously come into existence. Neither do humans. Both are built." ... can i laugh? will YOU ever decipher the difference between being reproduced naturally, and forming inside a mothers womb, from being built by human hand from scrap metal and electricity? or are your stubborn ways shutting down that part of your mind. Excuse me sir... but you are using two different versions of what the word "build" means to you, and trying to bring them together, at any cost (mostly to your humiliation) just to try and prove a theory wrong... i say it's time to let go of your ego, and admit that i am right, and I'm sure 90% of any people that view this page would agree.

 

[TheUnknown]

"What I meant (and is explained in the subsequent sentence if you bother to read it) was that individual humans (I was not talking about the start of the entire human race) “are built by and according to the designs encoded in our DNA, starting from the first seeds or sperm and egg”." once again thank you for deciphering what a biological entity is and the way it is created, from a machine, and not even knowing you did it.

 

[TheUnknown]

"Please read what I said, TheUnknown. I said Humans do not suddenly and miraculously “come into existence”. I do not know how you get from this statement to your suggestion that “you mean that they have not always been here(on earth?), OR they were placed here?”" then maybe you sir... should be a little more clear, in my dictionary existence alone has another meaning.

 

[TheUnknown]

"All you are saying here is "not all machines function biologically". That is true, but proves nothing relevant to this debate." this is very RELEVENT we are discussing the existence of FREE WILL INSIDE BIOLOGICAL ENTITES... where have you been?! or has your consistent ranting gotten you no where. looks like another case of amnesia. GOOODBYE SIR, THIS DEBATE IS FINISHED, I HOPE I HAVE MADE ENOUGH SENSE TO YOU, you said free will could never be explained, and once again i have proved the skeptics wrong, with definition after definition of free will and who is subsides in(intelligent and "non" intelligent biological entities), if not, then God be with you. (whatever that means to you)

 

[TheUnknown]

also sir, i would like to share something with you, that you can either believe or not believe. I AM a time traveler, and you will most likely see time travel in your life time. The particle collider that came online at CERN will make tremondous advancements in time travel and open the door for it's technology. Do not take my "biological entities" definition lightly... you may find it useful one day. Time travelers are among you, but only few speak out, who would believe us anyway? we'd lose all credability (which i hope does not happen here) a few things to worry about... your scientists should stop portraying global flooding as the number one need for the stop of pollutants, and worry about global pollution and the greenhouse effect, and the effect it will have on human evolution in the next 300 years(and animals), and make these things the top priority... watch your foreign policies, be wary of your presidents and the counties in which you reside. Civil war is near, an another natural catastrophe is around the corner. these "vigilantes" as your president calls them, are looked at as heroes to us... and Einstine's theories still all most hold true. Anti gravity will be an important way in the future for harnessing clean flight... your scientists should also make a huge discovery soon on that. If you're wondering why i was here, i came here to understand your era... the "era of ignorance" as we call it... and bring back important facts and beliefs of this time. As you should now assume, the mulitple worlds theory... is not a theory at all... it is very true... it is hard for even our scientists to get a grasp on. Also upon making contact with extra terrestrials, religion will again play a large part in society... I'm not going to go into detail... If you're wondering why i cannot go into detail on many of these subjects, we have rules and policy that we are to follow... we cannot interefere or change another world timeline unless it is on our agenda to do so. I can tell you all these things that will happen... but you are helpless against it anyway, and most people will not believe a word i say (as we have found out from studies). oh and by the way... we still have not harnessed any type of gravity warp on a large scale level... we think of it as our future means of transportation. As of now we use lasers that are positioned on planets to speed up craft as they exit the solar system... you should also start to unravel these means of travel very soon (or has it already happened?) in our worldline we had these things in 2001. So leave you with my trust and my credability, embrace it, or laugh at it, it means nothing to me, as i will not be here in 2 days. Just so you know, i come from the year 2326 in my worldline. God bless, and may man have mercy on himself... final word... be prepared for WW 3... get a good missile defense system or the US will be contaminated for by nuclear waste for 200 years.