Artemis 1 going to the Moon (launched Nov 16)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the Artemis 1 mission, its launch preparations, and the implications of its testing for future lunar exploration. Participants explore technical aspects, historical context, and the significance of the mission within NASA's broader goals for human spaceflight.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the Artemis 1 mission is a high-stakes test for the Space Launch System (SLS), emphasizing the need for human rating to proceed with the Moon program.
  • Concerns are raised about potential delays affecting the $21 billion program, with some arguing that a successful launch would establish the SLS as the most powerful orbital booster.
  • Several participants express awe at the size of the rocket, with comparisons made to the Saturn V.
  • Questions arise regarding the trajectory of the core stage after launch, with some participants speculating on its near-orbital path and comparing it to ICBM trajectories.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of missed launch attempts, with some arguing that the purpose of the test is to gather information rather than to achieve immediate success.
  • Critiques are made regarding the overall direction of NASA's lunar program, with some participants expressing disappointment over perceived similarities to the Apollo program and questioning the efficiency of current strategies.
  • Some participants reference historical context, sharing personal experiences and reflections on the evolution of space exploration since the Apollo missions.
  • Technical issues are reported, including problems with fueling and engine conditioning, leading to a scrub of the launch attempt.
  • There are discussions about the potential need to roll the rocket back to the Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB) if issues cannot be resolved on the pad, which could lead to significant delays.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the implications of the Artemis program, the technical challenges faced, and the historical context of NASA's lunar missions. No consensus is reached on the overall effectiveness or direction of the program.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the current testing process, including skipped tests during the wet dress rehearsal and concerns about the core stage's fueling cycles. The discussion reflects a range of opinions on the historical and technical aspects of the Artemis mission.

  • #121
The whole going to the Moon and, or to Mars has been proposed by one government and scraped by the next for some other program to the other destination, ever since Jimmy Carter was President of the US.
This latest version, Artemis, brought to us by NASA, has got as far as having a concrete objective: the Moon, and a concrete space vehicle, now being tested. Or attempting to be tested.

Personally, I prefer for this to start on the Moon and learn there how to live in a place that is trying to kill you every second you are there, but is a lot closer than Mars, who is just as bad as a place to go and visit, but also with the con of higher gravity and, that I can tell, no obvious pro that cannot also be said of a robotic and thus essentially cheaper mission than one with a crew.
So, for example, if a member of the crew on the Moon gets sick in a way that is beyond what can be treated up there, it is possible, at least in principle, to send the patient back to Earth to receive adequate treatment in a matter of maybe four days.
And also far easier to get supplies from Earth and to send back whatever is worth sending back, while staying in radio and video contact with people down here two-way, with just a two-second delay altogether.

Once that has gone on for long enough and the necessary technology for a more intensive occupation of another unfriendly but also far more distant world becomes available, in part thanks to what has been learned on the Moon, then maybe go to Mars.

I also agree that developing reusable boosters, as for example the SpaceX ones, is the way to go.
 
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  • #122
  • #124
There is a Falcon 9 launch planned for mid November (9.-15.), sending a bunch of payloads towards the Moon, including at least two rovers and an orbiter. We might get two missions to the Moon within days of each other, and very likely pictures with both being on their respective launch pads.
 
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  • #125
mfb said:
There is a Falcon 9 launch planned for mid November (9.-15.), sending a bunch of payloads towards the Moon, including at least two rovers and an orbiter. We might get two missions to the Moon within days of each other, and very likely pictures with both being on their respective launch pads.
Lordy, so many projects going on at the same time now. Is there a Cliffs Notes summary web page somewhere that shows the status of all of the different launch efforts? It seems like there are 5-10 different efforts going on right now simultaneously in different states of preparation...
 
  • #126
berkeman said:
Is there a Cliffs Notes summary web page somewhere that shows the status of all of the different launch efforts?
How about just a list of up coming launches:
https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/
 
  • #127

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  • #128
berkeman said:
Lordy, so many projects going on at the same time now. Is there a Cliffs Notes summary web page somewhere that shows the status of all of the different launch efforts? It seems like there are 5-10 different efforts going on right now simultaneously in different states of preparation...
Wikipedia
SpaceflightNow
Next Spaceflight
Different levels of detail and inclusion criteria but important launches or launches in the next week are covered by all.
 
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  • #131
It seems they just can't catch the wind in their sails for this one. :frown:
 
  • #132
I want to be optimistic. But Boeing has been making this very hard for me:
We will have a perfect SLS launch this month.
We will have a perfect SLS launch this month.
We will have a perfect SLS launch this month.
 
  • #133
It's now subtropical storm Nicole.

SLS is expected to stay on the launch pad as hurricane-strength speeds are unlikely. SpaceX has delayed a launch of geostationary satellites to Saturday, waiting for the storm to pass.
 
  • #135
mfb said:
the third one would collide with thanksgiving
In the famous words of Jose Jimenez (on the Ed Sullivan Show), "Oh I hope not..." :smile:
 
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  • #136
Nicole started moving away and getting weaker, but winds were stronger than expected - it looks like they temporarily exceeded the design ratings of the rocket. A former Space Shuttle engineer expects weeks of inspections and computer simulations to determine if the rocket is still fine in that case. As far as I understand that would also involve moving the rocket back to the VAB again, exchange the batteries again, re-certify the boosters for an even longer time in stacked configuration, ...
Here is a longer discussion and here is the Twitter thread discussing how NASA deals with violated specifications.

Launch opportunities:
* Until Nov 27
* Dec 9 to 22
* Jan 7 to 20
* Feb 3 to 17
Calendar
 
  • #137
Where's Ralph Kramden when you need him?

a6EEm6b_460s.jpg
 
  • #138
If they need to return to VAB, they may need to evaluate the status of the solid rocket boosters.
I believe the they are scheduled to "expire" in December.
 
  • #139
We've been trying to reach you about your rocket's extended warranty.
"When you stack your first segment on the aft segment, you start a clock that was originally 12 months," Lanhan said. "It's currently been analyzed up to 23 months, and that expires. One piece expires on the ninth of December of this year, and the other one is the 14th of December of this year."

Another environmental exposure rating expires on Dec. 15, he added.
It's very likely they can extend these certifications to December 22, but it's not getting better.

Wind speeds reached 100 mph, which is definitely more than it was rated for, but there are no signs of damage:
NASA says camera inspections show very minor damage and still plans to launch the Artemis One rocket on Wednesday.
 
  • #140
Yesterday afternoon, NASA posted that SLS had been inspected after Nicole and is clear to launch.
So the launch date is still NET Wednesday (Nov 16 ).
 
  • #142
A bit of insulation was stripped from the upper part, specifically the connection between Orion and its fairing. No chance to repair it on the pad, so they have to determine if it's okay to fly like this.

The launch countdown has started, 41 hours to go. So far it's mainly powering up things, the more critical phase of the countdown begins ~10 hours before the planned launch. The core stage will be fueled with hydrogen slower and earlier this time.
 
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  • #143
mfb said:
A bit of insulation was stripped from the upper part
Beautiful photos. Thanks.
 
  • #145
Fueling is ongoing, hydrogen has reached the fast-fill phase (oxygen as well, but that's the easy part). Ramping up to that fast-fill method has caused the problems in the past, so this step has been fixed. 6:27 to go.

Edit: Core stage is fully fueled!
 
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  • #146
No launch attempt would be complete without a hydrogen leak!
This time it's small and in the top-up procedure, where liquid hydrogen flows at a lower rate to counter boil-off. A "red team" has been sent to the rocket in order to fix it.

https://spaceflightnow.com/2022/11/15/artemis-1-launch-mission-status-center/

2:30

Edit: Leak fixed, now there is an issue with the range (safety), possibly moving the launch a bit within its two hour window.

0:50 assuming no delay
 
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  • #147
The exact launch time is currently unclear. The next event will be the launch director polling all stations if they are ready for launch. Once every system is "go" they can start the final 10 minute countdown. That means the beginning of the poll will be ~15 minutes before the launch, but there is no fixed requirement when it has to start. Could be at any time in the next 2 hours.

NASA livestream, 320k watching
NASAspaceflight, 57k watching
Everyday Astronaut, 42k watching

Edit: Now no earlier than 1:44 AM local time, in half an hour.

1:35: Launch poll started. ETA ~1:47.
 
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  • #148
1668580738702.png


Let's go!
 
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  • #149
LIFTOFF!

Boosters have separated, center core keeps firing, 4.5 minutes into the flight, so far everything looks great.

Edit: Reached a temporary orbit from the first stage as planned, solar panels of Orion have unfolded. The second stage burn will push it towards the Moon in a bit.

Edit2: Trans-lunar injection burn was a success, we had stage separation. SLS did its job and Orion is going to the Moon. It will make a first fly-by November 21.
 
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  • #150
Watched the launch last night from about 8:15 PST. ( With my fingers and toes crossed). Had to hit the hay shortly after. Glad to hear that everything went smoothly after that.
 
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