Artificial Gravity: Methods & Benefits

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of artificial gravity, exploring various methods for its creation and the potential benefits of implementing such systems in space environments. Participants consider theoretical approaches, practical challenges, and implications for human health in microgravity settings.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that artificial gravity can be achieved through methods such as rotation, continuous acceleration, magnetic forces, adding mass, or using gravity generators.
  • Others question the necessity of artificial gravity, citing challenges like docking with a spinning station.
  • Concerns are raised about the health effects of microgravity, with some participants advocating for artificial gravity to mitigate space sickness experienced by astronauts.
  • A historical reference is made to NASA's canceled Centrifuge Accommodations Module (CAM) for the ISS, with suggestions that a rotating module could be more feasible than rotating the entire station.
  • Some participants humorously propose unconventional methods for artificial gravity, such as using Velcro or wind tunnels, while others critique these ideas as impractical.
  • Technical challenges are highlighted, including the engineering difficulties of constructing a rotating space station and the need for a sufficiently large radius to minimize Coriolis effects.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of astronauts' movements affecting the station's orbit, with some clarifying that the system is closed and movements inside would not impact the station's trajectory.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the feasibility and desirability of artificial gravity, with no consensus on the best method or necessity of its implementation. Multiple competing ideas and concerns remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations related to the engineering capabilities required for constructing rotating habitats and the specific conditions needed to effectively simulate gravity without adverse effects.

TheMuses
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I've heard some great stuff about artificial gravity. The different ways it could be achieved. So far, I've heard that it can be done by rotation (reaching momentum), magnatism, keep accelerating something like a spacecraft so that people inside it sticks to the back side of the craft (assuming that it is ALWAYS in acceleration), adding extreme mass, or a gravity generator.

Are there any other ways?

I'm guessing rotation is the most cheapest way to make artificial gravity. How come ISS haven't developed this yet... all they need to do is spin... :smile:
 
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Why would they want artificial gravity? :-p

And besides, it's hard to dock with a spinning space station. :wink:
 
Why WOULDN'T they want artificial gravity? People live on the ISS for months at a time. Almost everyone who goes in outer space has some kind of space sickness. If you want to know more about that, I found a good link that sums it up.

http://www.spacefuture.com/habitat/healthfitness.shtml

If our future lies out there, we won't be going much further if we keep vomiting all over every spacecraft that leave earth. I heard that one way they solved this problem is by putting exercising machines on the spacecraft . Still, why don't they just design the spacecraft so that they could be rotated when it is in space so that they provide AG and prevent space sickness.

I do agree with you about the docking part though, Hurky. lol

I still want to know if there are other ways to create artificial gravity and if there are, is there any other method cheaper then just rotation.
 
Actually, NASA originally had plans to include a smaller scale version of "artificial gravity" onboard the ISS. It was called the Centrifuge Accommodations Module (CAM) but it was canceled due to the station's (as expected) cost overruns.

Besides, if the goal for including artificial gravity is to maintain healthy levels of muscle mass/bone etc for the station crew then it was would far easier (engineering-wise) and cheaper to build a rotating module within the station wherein the astronauts step into at regular intervals and get their conditioning, as opposed to rotating the entire station. A gym with a spin, if you will.

The research benefits of having a science lab in a micro-gravity environment is pretty much negated by spinning the whole station.
 
TheMuses said:
I still want to know if there are other ways to create artificial gravity and if there are, is there any other method cheaper then just rotation.

Velcro on the bottom of astronaut slippers and a "hairy" surface on the station floor. That is if the crew can stand the constant tearing noise made by the velcro action.
 
LMAO, imagine that...
With all the cutting edge technologies that we are using to save lives and protect humanity. Our only solution to cheap artificial gravity is velcro...
Talk about a breakthrough! :bugeye:
 
TheMuses said:
LMAO, imagine that...
With all the cutting edge technologies that we are using to save lives and protect humanity. Our only solution to cheap artificial gravity is velcro...
Talk about a breakthrough! :bugeye:

Well, we are talking about NASA here so cutting-edge is expected.

I predict the breakthrough will come in the form of velcro that makes no tearing noise when the two layers are separated :)
 
Couple of things:

1] The engineering that built the ISS is way inadequate. The ISS would fly apart into a million pieces. The solar panels alone would be toast.

2] Making a space station that is BIG enough to spin so as to provide AG is beyond our current ability. The ISS is only 240x150feet and most of that is solar panel, only a small fraction is habitation. That small fraction can't simply be rotated to provide gravity - you need to have habitation areas that are HUNDREDS of feet or more from the centre of mass, otherwise you get ridiculous rotation rates.

3] Even if you take into account the above two factors, you STILL don't get rid of vomiting. The Coriolis force over these short distances is possibly as bad as zero gravity. You need a space station that MANY HUNDREDS of feet in radius to eliminate the feelings of disorientation.

There is theoretically nothing we can't overcome, even with current technology. But it would be a vast undertaking that, as a project, would make the ISS look like a balsawood airplane.
 
TheMuses said:
How come ISS haven't developed this yet... all they need to do is spin... :smile:
The ISS isn't the right shape for that.
 
  • #10
I predict the breakthrough will come in the form of velcro that makes no tearing noise when the two layers are separated

I don't think that's even considered a form of artificial gravity. It's not pulling on any part of the body other then the foot. Not very gravity-like.
 
  • #11
NASA's next mission:

ISVS: INternational Space Velcro Station.

( Hey, SimplePie go get the patent, NOW!)
 
  • #12
SimplePie said:
I predict the breakthrough will come in the form of velcro that makes no tearing noise when the two layers are separated :)

LOL the movie garden state
 
  • #13
I don't know why people haven't thought of a big wind tunnel that blasts air and any objects in the vicinity towards a wall. No centripetal force required:smile:
 
  • #14
Ooh, nice -- the wind can blast me against the wall, and my chair, and my desk... and my papers... and my paperweight... and sharp, pointy objects...

(Why wouldn't I have a paperweight in a zero g environment? :rolleyes:)
 
  • #15
If they really want exercise, they can dress up the cosmonauts in thick rubber suits (gimp suits, if you will). They'll make big efforts to bend the joints, which should keep them fit.
This way, they'll save on heat bills too!
 
  • #16
Hurkyl said:
Ooh, nice -- the wind can blast me against the wall, and my chair, and my desk... and my papers... and my paperweight... and sharp, pointy objects...

(Why wouldn't I have a paperweight in a zero g environment? :rolleyes:)


Well i think its a decent idea... maybe not the best idea but still...
 
  • #17
I think that a bunch of cosmonauts spinning and jumping off the walls of any space station would hurl it out of orbit .. into deep space or into the atmosphere.

...without proper "get back on course" mechanisms, that is :)
 
  • #18
Centrifuges tend not to work for a number of reasons. The engineering, for one. It's immensely difficult and immensely expensive to produce such a structure, especially since it all has to be launched into orbit.

Second is that the radius has to be long enough so that the tangential acceleration experienced by the occupant at one's feet is roughly equivalent to the tangential acceleration at one's head. Building vertically would only worsen this phenomenon.

Third is one of the worst of all, the Coriolis effect. To not experience the side effects(for lack of a better term) of the Coriolis effect, the centrifuge would have to spin at an angular velocity equalling 2 rotations per minute or less. It is thought that most humans can grow accustomed to more rpm's, but even the most adaptive of spacefarer cannot handle more than 7 rpm's.

This would mean that a viable space habitat would need a radius of around a kilometer and a half.
 
  • #19
SF said:
I think that a bunch of cosmonauts spinning and jumping off the walls of any space station would hurl it out of orbit .. into deep space or into the atmosphere.

...without proper "get back on course" mechanisms, that is :)
No. The station and the astronaut are a closed system. They can't affect the motion of the station from inside.
 
  • #20
DaveC426913 said:
No. The station and the astronaut are a closed system. They can't affect the motion of the station from inside.
You're right.
 
  • #21
Haha! Lol
 
  • #22
haha wow, i come back 2 years since I opened this blog and it's still here...

so why don't we get some new engineers out there to make a bigger ISS, and this time be smart about it and make it a little comfortable for the little folks that'll soon live in them? this way those little folks might be able to live there much longer before becoming sick from zero gravity.
 
  • #23
TheMuses said:
haha wow, i come back 2 years since I opened this blog and it's still here...
'Blog'? You mean 'post'.
 
  • #24
TheMuses said:
haha wow, i come back 2 years since I opened this blog and it's still here...

If you necropost your own thread, does that mean you are re-incarnated?:smile:
 
  • #25
It would take multiple combinations of technologies which still need to advance.
 
  • #26
TheMuses said:
haha wow, i come back 2 years since I opened this blog and it's still here...

so why don't we get some new engineers out there to make a bigger ISS, and this time be smart about it and make it a little comfortable for the little folks that'll soon live in them? this way those little folks might be able to live there much longer before becoming sick from zero gravity.

There has been some progress and some change in direction the past few years. Vomiting is not really the issue; that's relatively easy to deal with. Muscle and bone loss are potential killers for any long space flight, as is blood pressure (though some sort of "g" suit might be able to deal with that). Attention is shifting away from centrifuges (see earlier posts about acceleration gradients and Coriolis forces) toward exercise, as in the vertical treadmill project. If you have further interest, Google Peter Cavanaugh Cleveland Clinic for a good look at current efforts.
 
Last edited:
  • #27
Personal centrifuges are the current thinking. A few hours a day is all the doc's think is needed. This is a serious issue for any manned mission to mars.
 

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