AS's at a grammar school in maths

[thrill3rnit3]

Do I actually have to take this STEP thing? Is it like one of those standardized tests?

And what's a tripos? I was looking up guides on making it into Cambridge, and then they were all saying that I should know what a tripos is.

 

[thrill3rnit3]

damn I checked some of the older tests and they are challenging!

any tips on the preparation?

 

[Chewy0087]

I think if you can answer all of those step questions and get 100% you've practically done half of the first year :P, does look damn hard

 

[thrill3rnit3]

Do you HAVE to take the test in order to get into Cambridge? Does doing the test get you more chances of getting in?

I mean, if that's the stuff they teach to high schoolers then I should've moved there when I was ten.

US education doesn't even come close.

 

[calvinuk]

Do you HAVE to take the test in order to get into Cambridge? Does doing the test get you more chances of getting in?

I mean, if that's the stuff they teach to high schoolers then I should've moved there when I was ten.

US education doesn't even come close.

I think you do but I'm not sure seeing as you're an international student, but all UK students HAVE to take it, as Cambridge are unable to differentiate between those with A's at A level and the very best Mathematicians, it's aimed at the top 5%.

Everything in a STEP paper is things we cover in the core of our A-level studies, but it's just extended, so therefore a lot harder. Bare in mind that you only have to answer 6 questions of your choice out of the twelve, and good answers to four will get you the required 1 grade.

 

[thrill3rnit3]

I think you do but I'm not sure seeing as you're an international student, but all UK students HAVE to take it, as Cambridge are unable to differentiate between those with A's at A level and the very best Mathematicians, it's aimed at the top 5%.

Everything in a STEP paper is things we cover in the core of our A-level studies, but it's just extended, so therefore a lot harder. Bare in mind that you only have to answer 6 questions of your choice out of the twelve, and good answers to four will get you the required 1 grade.

Up to what level do you guys cover in you "A-level" studies? Multvariate calculus?

Would 1 be a good score to get in?

 

[calvinuk]

Up to what level do you guys cover in you "A-level" studies? Multvariate calculus?

Would 1 be a good score to get in?

Yeah, a 1 grade is enough, some people occasionally get in with 2 grades if the interviewers liked them enough.

Nar, multivariable calculus is not usually touched on, in the core of our A-levels we must go at least as far as first order differential equations if they take the ordinary maths a-level, but if they (like me) decide to do the further maths a-level, then they must go as far as the integration and differentiation of hyperbolic functions when it comes to calculus.

 

[thrill3rnit3]

Yeah, a 1 grade is enough, some people occasionally get in with 2 grades if the interviewers liked them enough.

Nar, multivariable calculus is not usually touched on, in the core of our A-levels we must go at least as far as first order differential equations if they take the ordinary maths a-level, but if they (like me) decide to do the further maths a-level, then they must go as far as the integration and differentiation of hyperbolic functions when it comes to calculus.

Hmm interviews...I wonder how that will work if I'm in America.

Anyways, the stuff you list is pretty much the same stuff we do here. But I doubt 90% of high school kids here would be able to answer ~2 questions out of 12. Even I can't do them all. Right now, I can probably do around 5 or 6 (at average). I don't know if that's good enough.

 

[calvinuk]

Hmm interviews...I wonder how that will work if I'm in America.

Anyways, the stuff you list is pretty much the same stuff we do here. But I doubt 90% of high school kids here would be able to answer ~2 questions out of 12. Even I can't do them all. Right now, I can probably do around 5 or 6 (at average). I don't know if that's good enough.

Well, it is aimed at the top 5%, and it's not supposed to be easy.

You only need to answer 6 at the very most, and you only need to do 4 well (you don't even have to get the right answer, just show a logical progression of thoughts and be on your way to getting the answer.)

IIRC they have designated interviewers in America, ex students I believe, and at the very least you'd have a phone conversation with them.

 

[PhysicalAnomaly]

Step I looks like a typical A level further maths paper. Possibly easier since I took it with CIE and had to do 12 questions, most of them like Step I questions in 3 hours. The second one looks fun. The 3rd one is slightly ouch though. My tip would be to avoid mechanics questions as they tend to be pretty messy.

 

[thrill3rnit3]

Is the interview academic? I haven't checked Cambridge's but I've read Oxford and it seems like the interviewer will ask me a math question and I would have to "discuss" the solution with him/her...

 

[marmoset]

From what I've seen the material in step 1 is simpler than the stuff in the harder further maths modules (I think step 1 is aimed at people not doing further maths), but the step questions are more difficult, they make you think a lot more. This booklet looks really good for preparing for step, lots of solved questions:

http://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/undergrad/admissions/step/advpcm.pdf

Is the interview academic? I haven't checked Cambridge's but I've read Oxford and it seems like the interviewer will ask me a math question and I would have to "discuss" the solution with him/her...

With the interview though, what sort of questions were they? :P Just generally I mean, as in, they give you a diagram and you have to work out angles & forces or more abstract? I've read a few articles generally about them, but I can't find any specific to physics...


Also out of interest - where are you planning to study next year? =D would you recommend any other good universities apart from Oxford?

The oxford interviews are academic, you basically get asked physics and maths questions and work through the solutions with the interviewers. I got asked quite a variety of questions, some abstract ones which you didn't need to write anything down for, and some technical calculations for which you got a pad of paper/whiteboard to write the solutions on. They seem difficult when you first get asked them (they did to me anyway : ) ), but with quite a lot of help from the interviewers I got to the answers in the end, I guess they just want to see how you solve problems.

As far as recommending unis, I don't really know enough about them, I found it really hard to choose based pretty much on prospectuses and a few open days, and a lot of the courses looked very similar to me on paper. I found it helpful looking round the cities as well as the uni buildings when I went on open days, to see if I could actually live there. I'm sure there's some people on this forum who have studied at various UK unis, they'll know about details of the courses and student life particular to each place.

 

[thrill3rnit3]

What type of math? Calculus?

 

[marmoset]

Lots of different bits, here is a UK A level maths syllabus, it's split into modules, most people I talked to at interview had covered at least C1-C3, and lots of people had done C4 and M1 (which is a mechanics module).

http://www.edexcel.com/migrationdocuments/GCE New GCE/spec-gce-mathematics.pdf

 

[Chewy0087]

ah that's not bad at all then, we've practically done c1-4, m1 & s1 now, will be finishing 4 & starting FP1 in june, thanks by the way marmoset, this info has been really useful!

 

[thrill3rnit3]

I'm an international student, so I really have no idea with A level and C1 and C3 math covers

 

[Chewy0087]

It's all there in that link, C1 - C3 are relatively easy, trigonometric functions, differentiation (mainly first derivative) indefinite & definite integration (or anti-differentiation if you will), geometric & arithmetic simple series. Logs, ln's, exponentials, nothing more than that really.

 

[Chewy0087]

hey again, i need some more advice :F

i got my grades last week for AS and well I'm reasonably happy, i got;

AAA in maths (296/300 and 94/100 in another module) physics (280/300) and chemistry (245/300) - only just, and a C in french.

But now I'm stuck for what to do :F, I've been looking into universities a lot and still clueless, I'm afraid that the C in french will pretty much bar me from Oxford, which is only fair really, it's my own fault as i totally disregarded french this year...

I can't go to imperial or UCL as it's far too expensive for my family, and durham isn't a possibility either...

i have been looking at other universities such as Warwick, Birmingham(where i live), Leeds, but really have no preference, they all seem relativley okay but i don't have that "Yes! I want to go there!" feeling =P. the annoying thing is I'm sure now i can get an A* or two this year, and confident of getting 3 A's at the least (with further maths).

the one thing I'm really interested in is doing a PhD when i get to university, I've been looking at it more and more recentley and i know it IS early days however i love physics and the experience I've had of research has been fantastic.

so basically the question is this, before i apply anywhere, ( really want to keep my options open) - in order to allow me to get into a top post-graduate university such as imperial/cambridge/oxford do i HAVE to attend a top-tier undergraduate university such as the ones mentioned, its frustrating because I am sure i could have a shot at imperial or durham at least but its out of my hands...

thanks guys ;f

 

[alexgmcm]

hey again, i need some more advice :F

i got my grades last week for AS and well I'm reasonably happy, i got;

AAA in maths (296/300 and 94/100 in another module) physics (280/300) and chemistry (245/300) - only just, and a C in french.

But now I'm stuck for what to do :F, I've been looking into universities a lot and still clueless, I'm afraid that the C in french will pretty much bar me from Oxford, which is only fair really, it's my own fault as i totally disregarded french this year...

I can't go to imperial or UCL as it's far too expensive for my family, and durham isn't a possibility either...

i have been looking at other universities such as Warwick, Birmingham(where i live), Leeds, but really have no preference, they all seem relativley okay but i don't have that "Yes! I want to go there!" feeling =P. the annoying thing is I'm sure now i can get an A* or two this year, and confident of getting 3 A's at the least (with further maths).

the one thing I'm really interested in is doing a PhD when i get to university, I've been looking at it more and more recentley and i know it IS early days however i love physics and the experience I've had of research has been fantastic.

so basically the question is this, before i apply anywhere, ( really want to keep my options open) - in order to allow me to get into a top post-graduate university such as imperial/cambridge/oxford do i HAVE to attend a top-tier undergraduate university such as the ones mentioned, its frustrating because I am sure i could have a shot at imperial or durham at least but its out of my hands...

thanks guys ;f

I didn't apply to Imperial because of the expense so yeah I agree with you there. I applied to Warwick and used that as my insurance as Durham seemed a bit posh and also 300 miles away from my home :( One key thing to remember is that Warwick doesn't have any private accomodation on campus for 2nd and 3rd year (they might let you back on for final year) so it means you have to take the bus from leamington (7 miles away) every single day, that really put me off.

Nowadays, the IoP are pretty strict at making sure all the programs in different unis are standard and most of the weak departments have shut down, so just aim for like the top 15 or so, it matters even less if you plan on doing a PhD as it is your graduate school that will count loads and they are unlikely to care too much over whether you got a first at Oxford or at York if you apply for grad school, they will be more interested in seeing what research experience you did in the final years.

That said, you still have good grades, if you are that bothered about applying to Oxford etc. (you get 5 choices so might as well I suppose) then I would apply anyway, they are unlikely to care too much about the French as it isn't a maths/physics subject and so long as you can do really well on their entry exam (past papers are on the dept website) you should do fine. That exam is really hard btw so make sure you study for it a lot. As Cambridge are phasing out lots of their exams and they have Nat. Sci. not plain physics so you will be competing with people who took straight sciences and maths like I did, I would probably recommend applying to Oxford but it is up to you obviously.

If you are planning on doing a PhD and not joining an Investment Bank or whatever then your undergraduate university doesn't matter *that* much, remember it is difficult to get a first class degree anywhere so I would recommend visiting lots of universities and looking around the cities and remember to check where you will live in the second year too. Remember you will be living there for four years so make sure it is somewhere you will enjoy living!

Finally, if you haven't checked out these programs already, I would look at Sussex's physics program as they have a research placement thing which is worth looking into. (http://www.sussex.ac.uk/physics/1-2-21-8.html )

Sussex is also a small department which I prefer as it is more personal. Southhampton have some amazing scholarship thing if you can pass their qualifying exam so it's worth looking into that too and finally I would recommend looking at Exeter, as they also have a decent scholarship and it's where I'm going and it's awesome!

Nice grades btw, that was almost full marks in Maths, and yeah Chem is definitely the hardest Science, I hated it so much.

Bonne Chance!

 

[mal4mac]

I just read Mary Beard (famous Cambridge classics Professor) on 'A levels' in the TLS. She says taking more than four A levels shows that you are taking a 'stamp collecting' approach ... that is, if you don't want Oxford to think you are a trainspotter then just do 4! She says the time saved will be much better spent on aceing the four subjects & extra-curricular activities. Notice she says extra-curricular activities are important...

I guess if you are obviously the next Einstein it doesn't matter what you do in your spare time, but if you're just another all A student you need something to set you out from the pack. Be interesting! Go juggle in the high street for charity. Set up a trip for the astronomy club to observe an eclipse in some foreign badlands. Go to CERN and refuse to speak anything but French, especially to the visiting Oxford professors (they'll remember you then!) :-) Reading Einstein is good, but translating one of Poincare's popular works from the French would be better...

 

[alexgmcm]

I did 5.. hopefully I'm not a trainspotter :'( I guess they mean the kids that do like 10 over 3 years or whatever.

Hmm, they didn't seem to care much about extra-curricular stuff at Oxford, more about the entry test. And my brother did the same subjects as me and got an offer from Cambridge, so I guess they don't care *that* much either.

I mean you do need to stand out, like I had done some programming and guitar and stuff but nothing that impressive really, but seriously do NOT neglect the academic side, this isn't America, you can't get your place on extra-curriculars :P

 

[Chewy0087]

I didn't apply to Imperial because of the expense so yeah I agree with you there. I applied to Warwick and used that as my insurance as Durham seemed a bit posh and also 300 miles away from my home :( One key thing to remember is that Warwick doesn't have any private accomodation on campus for 2nd and 3rd year (they might let you back on for final year) so it means you have to take the bus from leamington (7 miles away) every single day, that really put me off.

Nowadays, the IoP are pretty strict at making sure all the programs in different unis are standard and most of the weak departments have shut down, so just aim for like the top 15 or so, it matters even less if you plan on doing a PhD as it is your graduate school that will count loads and they are unlikely to care too much over whether you got a first at Oxford or at York if you apply for grad school, they will be more interested in seeing what research experience you did in the final years.

That said, you still have good grades, if you are that bothered about applying to Oxford etc. (you get 5 choices so might as well I suppose) then I would apply anyway, they are unlikely to care too much about the French as it isn't a maths/physics subject and so long as you can do really well on their entry exam (past papers are on the dept website) you should do fine. That exam is really hard btw so make sure you study for it a lot. As Cambridge are phasing out lots of their exams and they have Nat. Sci. not plain physics so you will be competing with people who took straight sciences and maths like I did, I would probably recommend applying to Oxford but it is up to you obviously.

If you are planning on doing a PhD and not joining an Investment Bank or whatever then your undergraduate university doesn't matter *that* much, remember it is difficult to get a first class degree anywhere so I would recommend visiting lots of universities and looking around the cities and remember to check where you will live in the second year too. Remember you will be living there for four years so make sure it is somewhere you will enjoy living!

Finally, if you haven't checked out these programs already, I would look at Sussex's physics program as they have a research placement thing which is worth looking into. (http://www.sussex.ac.uk/physics/1-2-21-8.html )

Sussex is also a small department which I prefer as it is more personal. Southhampton have some amazing scholarship thing if you can pass their qualifying exam so it's worth looking into that too and finally I would recommend looking at Exeter, as they also have a decent scholarship and it's where I'm going and it's awesome!

Nice grades btw, that was almost full marks in Maths, and yeah Chem is definitely the hardest Science, I hated it so much.

Bonne Chance!

again, this is amazing advice, thank you! =O

that's a relief to be honest, i just want to make sure all of my options are open to me :D, i think like you said i might just apply to oxford anyway as one of the 5, and thanks for the info about sussex, exeter & southampton, i'd never even considered those three universities and they do all seem excellent, there's a lot of food for thought here - also what you said about warwick is a good point which id never thought of when i visited the uni, they wanted to big it up so much .

much obliged for the information and advice!

 

[alexgmcm]

again, this is amazing advice, thank you! =O

that's a relief to be honest, i just want to make sure all of my options are open to me :D, i think like you said i might just apply to oxford anyway as one of the 5, and thanks for the info about sussex, exeter & southampton, i'd never even considered those three universities and they do all seem excellent, there's a lot of food for thought here - also what you said about warwick is a good point which id never thought of when i visited the uni, they wanted to big it up so much .

much obliged for the information and advice!

Haha, thank you! It's always nice when people are grateful! :) And yeah, about Warwick, they didn't mention it when I was at the first Open Day, but then I read about it and asked them at the second open day and they said that yeah, it is a pain, they seemed to try to avoid the question lol. I can understand them wanting to make the Uni look perfect though.

So yeah you should try and ask when you visit the unis, but it is quite hard if you are shy like me as they don't tend to bring it up.

Best of luck and hope you enjoy your trip to CERN, I was going to visit last year but then they shut it to visitors for the launch of the LHC (shame that didn't turn out so well lol), I will have to try and go with the university physics society or something. It looks really interesting anyway and you should have a great time!

Oh, one last thing, have you ever used a telescope or done astronomy? Because I bought a telescope recently and found it to be pretty awesome, especially reading about the different types of stars and the astrophysical processes that make them what they are. I guess you might have an astronomy club at your school, it's worth trying out anyway!

 

[Chewy0087]

Haha, thank you! It's always nice when people are grateful! :) And yeah, about Warwick, they didn't mention it when I was at the first Open Day, but then I read about it and asked them at the second open day and they said that yeah, it is a pain, they seemed to try to avoid the question lol. I can understand them wanting to make the Uni look perfect though.

So yeah you should try and ask when you visit the unis, but it is quite hard if you are shy like me as they don't tend to bring it up.

Best of luck and hope you enjoy your trip to CERN, I was going to visit last year but then they shut it to visitors for the launch of the LHC (shame that didn't turn out so well lol), I will have to try and go with the university physics society or something. It looks really interesting anyway and you should have a great time!

Oh, one last thing, have you ever used a telescope or done astronomy? Because I bought a telescope recently and found it to be pretty awesome, especially reading about the different types of stars and the astrophysical processes that make them what they are. I guess you might have an astronomy club at your school, it's worth trying out anyway!

thanks again for this advice :D, i know what you mean about open-days, they're a bit lame for seeing what its really like. thanks i hope i have a good time at CERN (going on saturday =DD) should be good!

also i would like to do some more astronomy, I am going to try to go to the next few international year of astronomy lectures, I've been to the past few but it's been cloudy every single time apart from once when the lecture was on the moon...which was great but everyone was just talking about the moon when like you said there's so much more stuff which is great aswell! also the astronomy club will be doing 8pm viewings in winter so that should be good, of course ill hopefully have an offer or two by then...

that's a good point! if youre just a plain physics student are you allowed to use the university telescopes etc just for fun? i don't particularly want to do an astrophysics degree but it would be awesome using all of the great telescopes! :D

 

[alexgmcm]

that's a good point! if youre just a plain physics student are you allowed to use the university telescopes etc just for fun? i don't particularly want to do an astrophysics degree but it would be awesome using all of the great telescopes! :D

Obviously it differs between unis, but generally you can still take astronomy modules while being on a straight physics degree so yeah you can use them in those modules. As for using them for recreation I suppose it depends how busy they are and how awesome your professors are, you should ask them at Open Days actually, that is an interesting question.