Atherosclerosis not linked to our lifestyle or diet

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between atherosclerosis and lifestyle or diet, particularly in the context of a recent article from The Lancet. Participants explore whether atherosclerosis is an inherent aspect of human aging or if it is influenced by dietary and lifestyle factors, referencing both historical and contemporary evidence.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference a Lancet article suggesting that atherosclerosis is common in preindustrial populations and may be an inherent aspect of aging rather than linked to specific diets or lifestyles.
  • Others question the assertion that atherosclerosis is a modern ailment, noting that evidence exists indicating diet and exercise can reduce the risk of the disease.
  • A participant mentions that the presence of atherosclerosis in ancient populations, such as the upper classes of ancient Egypt, could be explained by their diet and lack of physical activity.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of studies on animals, suggesting that atherosclerosis can be induced in various species through high-fat diets, which raises questions about the relevance of such studies to human health.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the conclusions drawn in the Lancet article and questions the validity of its claims, indicating irritation that such conclusions are published in a reputable journal.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus. There are competing views regarding the influence of diet and lifestyle on atherosclerosis, with some asserting a connection while others support the idea that it is primarily an inherent condition of aging.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the relationship between diet, lifestyle, and atherosclerosis, noting that assumptions about ancient populations and their health behaviors may not be straightforward. The discussion reflects uncertainty about the conclusions of the referenced article and the implications of historical evidence.

thorium1010
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A recent lancet article concluding -

In conclusion, atherosclerosis was common in four preindustrial populations, including a preagricultural hunter*gatherer population, and across a wide span of human history. It remains prevalent in contemporary human beings. The presence of atherosclerosis in premodern human beings suggests that the disease is an inherent component of human ageing and not characteristic of any specific diet or lifestyle

http://download.thelancet.com/flatcontentassets/pdfs/S014067361360598X.pdf
 
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Hi thorium, interesting article. I wonder why they say that atherosclerosis is believed to be a modern ailment? It seems the belief they were trying to test must be that the disease wasn't as common for people who lived years ago because of an allegedly better diet (less junk food) and higher level of activity (exercise). But isn't there evidence that diet and exercise DOES reduce atherosclerosis? If so, is the conclusion then that those ancient people also didn't eat right and get enough exercise? :-p
 
Q_Goest said:
But isn't there evidence that diet and exercise DOES reduce atherosclerosis? If so, is the conclusion then that those ancient people also didn't eat right and get enough exercise? :-p

Yes, there is substantial evidence that the risk of atherosclerosis in humans is associated with diet and level of exercise as well as genetic factors. And yes, the conclusion, given present evidence, is that the diet and lack of heavy physical activity among the ancient Egyptian upper classes can explain the presence of atherosclerotic lesions in mummified remains.

It's also true that atherosclerosis can be induced in a variety of mammalian and bird species by feeding them a high fat diet while in captivity.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(10)60294-2/fulltext

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2135820/

http://www.nature.com/news/iceman-s-dna-reveals-health-risks-and-relations-1.10130

Note the second link was published in 1948, indicating the evidence is quite old and has been confirmed by the considerable weight of additional studies since.
 
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Thanks for that Stephen. It kinda struck me that we often think of junk food and a sedentary lifestyle as modern afflictions, but obviously that isn't true.

As for those poor old birds and mammalians being fed those high fat diets, I wonder why those scientists did that to those nice animals when all they need to do is autopsy our pets.
 
Q_Goest said:
Thanks for that Stephen. It kinda struck me that we often think of junk food and a sedentary lifestyle as modern afflictions, but obviously that isn't true.

As for those poor old birds and mammalians being fed those high fat diets, I wonder why those scientists did that to those nice animals when all they need to do is autopsy our pets.

You're welcome. That study with diethylstilbestrol was an early indication of the role of blood lipids in what was then called "atheromatosis". The fact that it can be induced in birds as well as mammals is an indication that the potential for this disease probably developed quite some time ago with the common ancestors. It's also an indication to not feed your pets table food and to make sure they get plenty of exercise.
 
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Q_Goest said:
But isn't there evidence that diet and exercise DOES reduce atherosclerosis? If so, is the conclusion then that those ancient people also didn't eat right and get enough exercise? :-p

The point, the author was making there was particular tribe (among the other tribes studied) which they believed to be a pre agriculture society, that had features suggestive of atherosclerosis, also other tribes lived in ancient times where disease and famine were quite common.
A pre agriculture tribe would have a lot more physical activity compared to a agriculture(atleast that is the assumption).

Honestly if you ask me, i do not know what to make of the article, also i would question their conclusion. But, i am much more irritated that a journal like lancet prints this article with such a conclusion.

The presence of atherosclerosis in premodern human beings suggests that the disease is an inherent component of human ageing and not characteristic of any specific diet or lifestyle
 

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