ATLAS reanalysis of W mass: Lower uncertainty, agrees with SM

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the recent ATLAS reanalysis of the W boson mass, focusing on the implications of improved analysis methods and the resulting lower uncertainty. Participants explore the differences in event generation techniques and the impact of these improvements on measurements, particularly in relation to previous results from the CDF experiment.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the improved ATLAS result highlights the CDF measurement as an outlier, suggesting a significant discrepancy in the data.
  • Others mention that the primary difference in the ATLAS analysis is due to enhancements in event generation, prompting questions about potential improvements at Tevatron energies.
  • One participant seeks clarification on what specific improvements have been made in event generation.
  • Another explains that obtaining the W boson mass requires modeling to account for missing components, such as the z-component of the neutrino, and that these models evolve over time as new data emerges.
  • Participants discuss the limitations of using Pythia for event generation, indicating that it may not adequately reflect current data and requires significant tuning for accuracy.
  • There is mention of the need to explore newer versions of tools like PHOTOS for better results.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the effectiveness of current event generation methods and the implications of the ATLAS results, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations are noted regarding the modeling of proton structure and the evolution of inputs used in the analysis, which may affect the interpretation of results.

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TL;DR
ATLAS reduced the systematic uncertainties of its measurement. This puts the CDF measurement in even stronger disagreement with other experiments.
Improved ATLAS result weighs in on the W boson
Same dataset, but better analysis methods and some new results from elsewhere that could be used. Money plot from ATLAS:

ATLAS-Plot_Overview_WMass%20%281%29.png


This makes the CDF measurement an even weirder outlier than it was at the time of publication.
 
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The primary difference is improvements in the event generation. It makes one wonder if there are similar improvements to be made at Tevatron energies.
 
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Vanadium 50 said:
The primary difference is improvements in the event generation
What are the improvements?
 
Without getting too technical, what you want is m(W). What you have is m(l + v) and you're missing the z-component of the neutrino. It takes some modeling to get from one to the other and those models contain inputs like proton structure.

As time passes, some of these models (or inputs) are disfavored by the data and new ones are created to take their place.
 
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I have used pythia a lot.

Is it just the event generation of W -> l + v that has been improved or what else have they done?

If you have any technical references, I would be happy to read them
 
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Pythia (at leas Pythia 6 out of the box) won't come close. The PDFs are ancient, the underlying event isn't right, and it won't get radiation of the lepton right.

This is kind of a part in 10,000 measurement. Takes lots of tuning and adjustment to get everything right.
 
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Yeah I have also used Pythia with various pdfs. I guess I have to look more into the newest version of PHOTOS
 

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