Average Speed With Ambiguous Distance/Time

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the average speed of a locomotive that travels a round trip at different constant speeds: 40 mi/h in one direction and 60 mi/h on the return. Participants are exploring the relationship between distance, time, and average speed without arriving at a definitive conclusion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to derive the average speed using the formula for average speed and substituting values for distance and time. There are questions about the steps leading to the final answer and how to properly account for the different speeds on the outbound and return trips.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on how to approach the problem, while others are questioning the accuracy of calculations and interpretations. Multiple methods are being explored, but there is no explicit consensus on the final average speed.

Contextual Notes

There is a recurring emphasis on deriving the solution from first principles, with some participants expressing a preference for detailed step-by-step reasoning. Additionally, there are indications of confusion regarding the application of factors in the calculations.

onemic
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Homework Statement


A locomotive travels on a straight track at a constant speed of 40 mi/h, then reverses direction and returns to its starting point, traveling at a constant speed of 60 mi/h. What is the average speed for the round-trip?

Homework Equations



avgS = distance/time
t = d/40

The Attempt at a Solution



avgS = 2d/(t+40/60(t))
= 2d/(t+(2/3)t)
= 2(t/40)/(t+(2/3)t)
= (t/20)/(t+(2/3)t)
I don't really know what to do after this point. The solution manual has the steps for the solution as:

avgS = 2d/(t+(2/3)t)
= 80t/(t+(2/3)t) = 48 mi/h

I have no idea how they got to the last step. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
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In case you don't know how they got the first step, they took the total distance over the total time: it's t+2/3t because he's traveling 1.5 times as fast on the way back. as t represents the amount of time it takes the train to get to the turning point, we can use the formula d = 40t (because distance = speed*time) and substitute into the formula given in the answers: 2d = 80t.
 
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Ah, thanks. How did they get the final answer of 48 mi/h?
 
80t/(5/3t)=240t/5t=48
 
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Thank you!
 
onemic said:

Homework Statement


A locomotive travels on a straight track at a constant speed of 40 mi/h, then reverses direction and returns to its starting point, traveling at a constant speed of 60 mi/h. What is the average speed for the round-trip?

Homework Equations



avgS = distance/time
t = d/40

The Attempt at a Solution



avgS = 2d/(t+40/60(t))
= 2d/(t+(2/3)t)
= 2(t/40)/(t+(2/3)t)
= (t/20)/(t+(2/3)t)
I don't really know what to do after this point. The solution manual has the steps for the solution as:

avgS = 2d/(t+(2/3)t)
= 80t/(t+(2/3)t) = 48 mi/h

I have no idea how they got to the last step. Any help is greatly appreciated.

I much prefer to do it from first principles, in detail and without skipping steps; here is how:

If distance out = distance in = d (in miles), time out is T_o = d/40 (in hours), and time in is T_i = d/60. Total time = T_o+T_i = d(1/40 + 1/60) = (100/2400) d. Round-trip distance is 2d, so average speed is S_avg = 2d/(total time) = 2400/100 = 24 (in miles/hr).
 
Ray Vickson said:
I much prefer to do it from first principles, in detail and without skipping steps; here is how:

If distance out = distance in = d (in miles), time out is T_o = d/40 (in hours), and time in is T_i = d/60. Total time = T_o+T_i = d(1/40 + 1/60) = (100/2400) d. Round-trip distance is 2d, so average speed is S_avg = 2d/(total time) = 2400/100 = 24 (in miles/hr).
You have an error here, Ray, from a lost or misplaced factor of 2. The average speed for the entire trip is 48 mi/hr.
 
Mark44 said:
You have an error here, Ray, from a lost or misplaced factor of 2. The average speed for the entire trip is 48 mi/hr.

Thanks. That was an obvious typo that I did not see before pressing the enter key.
 

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