Bach, Bach, and more Bach please

[BWV]

Harpsichord- 16th century, piano - 18th century

 

[pinball1970]

Harpsichord- 16th century, piano - 18th century

Brass and steel, a quick search.

"By the 16th century, harpsichord makers in Italy were making lightweight instruments with low tension brass stringing. A different approach was taken in the Southern Netherlands starting in the late 16th century, notably by the Ruckers family. Their harpsichords used a heavier construction and produced a more powerful and distinctive tone with higher tension steel treble stringing. These included the first harpsichords with two keyboards, used for transposition.[3]"

 

[Hornbein]

 

[BWV]

there was a contemporary opinion of Bach as sort of an eccentric, mannered composer who sought the most extreme dissonances within the constraints of the style. Listen to Corelli, a great composer who did not stray from the general conventions of the period to get a sense of this

 

[Hornbein]

My experience is that on a pipe organ just about everything sounds dissonant. Acapella singing has the same problem.

 

[walkeraj]

JS Bach's music: geometric. Never to be confused with Handel's, for instance.

 

[Hornbein]

Toccata and Fugue on a harp.

 

[phinds]

And there weren't that many people in Europe.

100 million may not be a lot by today's standard, but, hey 100 million is not chopped liver. It's the number of wealthy people that matters to your point, not the total number.

 

[phinds]

I truly don't think a more overwhelming, blatant, unquestionable supremacy can ever be stated as that of Herr Bach in His field.

Oh, come on. Don't beat around the bush like that, tell us what you really think of him.

 

[Hornbein]

I'd say that the credit for this sort of thing ultimately goes back to organist Jon Lord. He influenced guitarist bandmate Richie Blackmore to move to this sort of style. I was around when it was first catching on. It became successful enough to mostly replace the blues-based style dominant at the time.

Like the organ, overdriven electric guitars are dynamically insensitive. That's one of the reasons I don't play them.

 

[pinball1970]

I'd say that the credit for this sort of thing ultimately goes back to organist Jon Lord. He influenced guitarist bandmate Richie Blackmore to move to this sort of style.

I agree with the first part but not the second. Both Lord and Blackmore loved Bach and put them in their solos but they both had unbelievable dynamics.
Richie continued to do that with Rainbow.

Anyway this solo is Bach influenced with changes in sound and dynamics. One of my favourite Jon Lord Bach parts.
EDIT: Solo at 3.32

 

[Hornbein]

What I mean is, an organ will produce the same sound, same volume, no matter how hard or softly you press the key. Even electronic keyboards that have touch sensitivity turn that off in the case of organs. Which is a reason I don't play the organ. Organs have that master volume or swell pedal but that isn't the same.

 

[pinball1970]

What I mean is, an organ will produce the same sound, same volume, no matter how hard or softly you press the key. Even electronic keyboards that have touch sensitivity turn that off in the case of organs. Which is a reason I don't play the organ. Organs have that master volume or swell pedal but that isn't the same.

They have all those buttons and stuff!

 

[pinball1970]

Like this guy!

 

[Hornbein]

The 19th century synthesizer.

 

[Akay88]

The term fugue was invented by one Jacobus of Liege in 1330 and composers were composing complex contrapunctal music and fugues for centuries before Bach came along.

My 2 cents: The 17th century was truly a transitional phase in European history, in between the middle ages, when European society was consumed by fear, confusion and murderous bigotry, and the technological revolution that was to be a striking feature of the 18th century. In fact, few instances in recorded history remain where the passage of so little time was marked by such a huge transformation in the landscape of human society and the only ones that come to mind were effected by natural disasters or violent conflict.

Interesting historical anecdotes from around this time:

1. William Harvey, the physician who discovered that blood flows through veins was employed by James I to find a way to distinguish between people and witches for a fair trial. This was a step up in the degree of evidence required to convict people of witchcraft, which for example, previously, by his (James I’s) own instruction (he wrote a book endorsed by the CoE) admitted the testimony of children in witchcraft trials. Thus physical evidence was required of being a witch, which came in the form of warts and sores in private places. Pasta Dr Martin Ssempa would be intrigued.

2. Flushable toilets were invented by a watchmaker in 1501. While Indians had known advanced plumbing for well over 4000 years, Europe threw the contents of their chamber pots out the window onto the street below. In France the practice was preceded by shouting “garde a l’eau!” Ahh…Paris!

3. Dom Perignon, a French monk, invented champagne in 1638.

While the subjects of art continued to be the glory of god (that greedy jerk) the likes of Carvaggio and Rubens were already shifting the landscape. The depiction of infant Jesus, in accordance with Christian beliefs as some middle aged midget in middle age art was because they believed that he was already perfect by the time he was born- a homunculus. By the Baroque, he looked more like a baby (thank god, pun intended).

The destiny of music was to be no different, and Bach’s destiny was intertwined with it with such a viscosity (it being that time, it being that place, him being him), that separating the history from the legend would be akin to separating the good composer from his desire to perpetuate his own genetic lineage! Bach was neither the first nor the last master of counterpoint, however his towering influence remains as the pinnacle of western creativity. With the inconsiderate poop flinging of the previous century out of the way, the Holy Roman empire strongly entrenched and Napoleon a twinkle in his mother’s mother’s mother’s (values are approximations and may not indicate reality) eye, business was a booming in Leipzig, a preferred trade route.

The contrapuntal style, especially in fugues in many ways mimics nature. Bachs fugues invariably start with a single voice following a simple pattern flowing along a simple route (elementary, childish, uncomplicated) like natural precursors which hang around, doing nothing (waiting). This is without exception followed by the introduction of a second voice at varied intervals along the rhythm of the first, following the rhythm of the first and both moving along, like little eddies that form when running water in a small brook encounters a small stone, the lines bumping into each other occasionally stretching and squeezing when they meet and leaving little pauses and gaps in their wake.

This is often followed by a third line and by the time this theme grows to maturity, to the average listener, the complexity of separating the lines has already approached that of the three body problem. We are able to intermittently pick up elements of the previous structures, to sneak in between the lines for a little peak here and there, but the overall pace and unyielding forward momentum wrenches us out from the past and propels it towards the future in a cyclical, cynical way (look how easy it is to confuse you jerk) and as the remnants of our thoughts about the past evaporate, we realize there is no keeping up with this. We close our eyes and let the complexity take its course, like the incipient stages of a heroin trip, going deeper and deeper until it and our consciousness are one, the complexity approaching astronomical measures leaving remnants of coherent structures here and there like the simultaneous order and disorder of nature.

Bach didn’t stop there, oh no. He used four, five and even six simultaneous voices which he often designed to be playable by a single human being! The wall of music could only be penetrated by the most skilled ear developed to its pinnacle while the average listener may be left in the dust, confused and sacrilegiously even bored! It is difficult to imagine the intellect, devotion and absolute mastery needed to craft pieces of art from sound, a fleeting, unreliable medium for them to resound with the degree of sophistication Bach has brought and with such prolificacy.

 

[pinball1970]

I heard this story at college, I hung out with music department a lot. I have no idea f it is true or if some of the details are true. A good story though.

https://interlude.hk/johann-sebastian-bach-vs-louis-marchand/

 

[pinball1970]

Nice natural reverb on this. Something about the harpsichord.

 

[pinball1970]

 

[pinball1970]

 

[Hornbein]

 

[Hornbein]

I went to a marimba concert in Tokyo. Marimbas are LOUD. A grand piano has no chance against one.

 

[pinball1970]

just for comparison

 

[Sagittarius A-Star]

just for comparison

 

[pinball1970]

just for comparison

Wow. I get mine about 174 bpm, your guy is about 300 bpm? I used an on line metronome, difficult just when you think you have it, it goes out.

 

[Sagittarius A-Star]

 

[pinball1970]

DM toccata at 22? Bach was king.

 

[pinball1970]

Amazing. Genius does not even touch it. Sleepers awake is one of the most beautiful melodies but that was in his 60s!

 

[Hornbein]

 

[Hornbein]