Baire Category Theorem .... Stromberg, Theorem 3.55 .... ....

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on understanding the proof of Theorem 3.55 from Karl R. Stromberg's "An Introduction to Classical Real Analysis," particularly focusing on the implications of the statement that the interior of the closure of a set is empty. Participants seek clarification on specific steps in the proof related to topological concepts, including open sets, closures, and the selection of radii for balls in a topological space.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the condition ##A_1^{ - \ \circ } = \emptyset## allows for the selection of a point ##x_1## in the open set ##V \setminus A_1^{ - }##, suggesting that if this were not the case, it would lead to a contradiction regarding the density of ##A_1##.
  • Another participant explains that since ##V \setminus A_1^{ - }## is open, it contains interior points, allowing for the selection of a radius ##h## such that the ball ##B_h(x_1)## is contained in ##V \setminus A_1^{ - }##.
  • There is a discussion about the requirement that ##r_1 < 1##, which is linked to ensuring that a sequence is Cauchy later in the proof.
  • A participant seeks further clarification on how to rigorously demonstrate that the closure of the ball ##B_h(x_1)## is contained within ##V \setminus A_1^{ - }##.
  • Another participant suggests finding a smaller radius ##h'## such that the open ball of radius ##h'## is within the set, and then using this to show the closure is also contained in the required set.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the implications of the open set properties and the conditions for choosing points and radii, but there remains some uncertainty regarding the rigorous demonstration of certain steps in the proof. The discussion does not reach a consensus on all points raised.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference definitions related to nowhere dense sets and the properties of closures and interiors in topological spaces, indicating that these concepts are crucial to understanding the proof but may require further exploration.

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TL;DR
The post concerns an aspect of Stromberg's proof of the Baire Category Theorem ... ...
I am reading Karl R. Stromberg's book: "An Introduction to Classical Real Analysis". ... ...

I am focused on Chapter 3: Limits and Continuity ... ...

I need help in order to fully understand the proof of Theorem 3.55 on page 110 ... ...Theorem 3.55 and its proof read as follows:

Stromberg - Theorem 3.55 ... Baire Category Theorem ... .png
At the start of the second paragraph of the above proof by Stromberg we read the following:

" ... ...Since ##A_1^{ - \ \circ } = \emptyset##, we can choose ##x_1## in the open set ##V## \ ##A_1^{ - }## and then we can choose ##0 \lt r_1 \lt 1## such that ##B_{ r_1 } ( x_1 )^{ - } \subset V## \ ##A_1^{ - }## [ check that ##B_r (x)^{ - } \subset B_{ 2r } (x) ## ] ... ...My questions are as follows:Question 1

Can someone explain and demonstrate exactly/rigorously why/how it is that ##A_1^{ - \ \circ } = \emptyset## means that we can choose ##x_1## in the open set ##V## \ ##A_1^{ - }## ... it seems very plausibly the case ... but ... how are we (rigorously) sure this is true ... ?
Question 2

How/why can we choose ##0 \lt r_1 \lt 1## such that ##B_{ r_1 } ( x_1 )^{ - } \subset V## \ ##A_1^{ - }## ... ?

... and why are we checking that ##B_r (x)^{ - } \subset B_{ 2r } (x)## ... ... ?

*** EDIT ***

My thoughts on Question 2 ...

Since ##V## \ ##A_1^{ - }## is open ... ##\exists \ r_1## such that ##B_{ r_1 } ( x_1 ) \subset V## \ ##A_1^{ - }## ...

... BUT ... how do we formally and rigorously show that ...

... we can choose an ##r_1## such that the closure of ##B_{ r_1 } ( x_1 )## is a subset of ##V## \ ##A_1^{ - }## ... ( ... intuitively we just choose ##r_1## somewhat smaller yet ... )

... and further why is Stromberg talking about ##r_1## between ##0## and ##1## ...?
Help will be much appreciated ...

Peter
==========================================================================================================================

The definitions of nowhere dense, first and second category and residual are relevant ... so I am providing Stromberg's definitions ... as follows:
Stromberg -  Defn 3.53 ... Nowhere Dense ...First and Second Category ... .png


Stromberg's terminology and notation associated with the basic notions of topological spaces are relevant to the above post ... so I am providing the text of the same ... as follows:

Stromberg -  Defn 3.11  ... Terminology for Topological Spaces ... .png


Hope that helps ...

Peter
 
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On the first one:

Assume the opposite: that V\A1- is empty. Then A1- contains V, which is a nonempty open set and has interior points (since all points in an open set are interior). So A1- has interior points, but it is the closure of A1, and that contradicts the statement that A1 is nowhere dense. From this contradiction we conclude that V\A1- cannot be empty.
 
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On the second one, note that V\A1- is open because it is the intersection of open set V with the complement of A1-, which is open because A1- is closed. Since it is open, all its points are interior and in particular x1 is, so there exists some h such that the ball Bh(x1) is contained in V\A1- .

He requires r1<1 because a little further down he requires that rn < 1/n. That's how he makes the sequence Cauchy.
 
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Thanks so much for the help, Andrew

Just working through your posts now ...

Thanks again,

Peter
 
andrewkirk said:
On the second one, note that V\A1- is open because it is the intersection of open set V with the complement of A1-, which is open because A1- is closed. Since it is open, all its points are interior and in particular x1 is, so there exists some h such that the ball Bh(x1) is contained in V\A1- .

He requires r1<1 because a little further down he requires that rn < 1/n. That's how he makes the sequence Cauchy.
Thanks again for the help Andrew ...

... but ... just a clarification ...

... how exactly do we demonstrate rigorously .. given the ball ##B_h (x_1) \subset V## \ ##A_1^{ - }##

... we then have ##B_h (x_1)^{ - } \subset V## \ ##A_1^{ - }## ... ... ?Hoe you can help further ...

Peter
 
Find an h' such that the open ball of radius h' is in that set. Then set h=h'/2. The closure of that ball will be inside the open ball of radius h' (as the closure is the set of points distant no further than h'/2 from the point, and that is a subset of the bigger open ball, set of points distance less than h' from the point), and hence will be in the required set.

This may relate to a tangential question you were asking earlier - something about checking the closures of balls with double or half the radius.
 
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