Ball hitting a hanging rod: Velocity and Energy Loss Analysis

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a ball of mass m colliding with a hanging rod of length L, which then rotates to an angle θ. Participants are analyzing the velocity of the ball post-collision and the energy loss during the interaction, utilizing concepts from rotational dynamics and energy conservation.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the conservation of energy and angular momentum, with various attempts to express the final energy and velocity in terms of the initial conditions. Questions are raised about the potential energy baseline and the effects of angle θ on potential energy.

Discussion Status

There is ongoing dialogue regarding the correctness of expressions and dimensional consistency. Some participants provide feedback on specific calculations, while others confirm the validity of certain steps, indicating a collaborative effort to clarify the problem without reaching a definitive conclusion.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating through potential transcription errors and dimensional inconsistencies in their equations. The discussion reflects a focus on ensuring the accuracy of the mathematical expressions used in the analysis.

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Homework Statement


A rod of length L hangs on a nail. a ball of mass m hits and sticks to it. the rod rotates to angle θ.
What is the velocity of the ball and what's the loss of energy.

Homework Equations


Kinetic energy of a rigid body: ##E=\frac{1}{2}I\omega^2##
Angular momentum: ##I\omega##

The Attempt at a Solution


Location of C.O.M:
$$x_{c.m.}=\frac{mL+M\frac{L}{2}}{m+M}=\frac{L}{m+M}\left( m+\frac{M}{2} \right)$$
The potential energy at the inclined position, the final position:
$$E_f=(m+M)g\cdot y_{c.m.}=(m+M)\frac{L}{m+M}\left( m+\frac{M}{2} \right)g\cos\alpha=Lg\left( m+\frac{M}{2} \right)\cos\alpha$$
Ef equals the kinetic energy after the hit:
$$E_f=\frac{1}{2}I\omega^2\rightarrow Lg\left( m+\frac{M}{2} \right)\cos\alpha=(mL^2+\frac{1}{3}ML^2)\omega^2\Rightarrow \omega^2=\frac{g\left( m+\frac{M}{2} \right)\cos\alpha}{L\left( m+\frac{1}{3}M \right)}$$
Conservation of angular momentum:
$$mvL=I\omega \Rightarrow mvL=\left( mL^2+\frac{1}{3} ML^2 \right) \omega$$
$$\Rightarrow v=\frac{ L\left( m+\frac{1}{3}M \right) \omega }{m}=\sqrt{Lg\left( m+\frac{1}{3}M \right)\left(m+\frac{M}{2} \right) }$$
$$\Delta E=Lg\left( m+\frac{M}{2} \right)\cos\alpha-\frac{1}{2}mv^2=Lg\left( m+\frac{M}{2} \right) \left[ \cos\alpha-\frac{1}{2m}\left( m+\frac{1}{3}M\right) \right]$$
Is it true?
 

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What baseline are you taking for the PE? As theta (alpha) increases, does the PE increase or decrease?
 
$$E_f=(m+M)g\cdot y_{c.m.}=(m+M)\frac{L}{m+M}\left( m+\frac{M}{2} \right)g(1-\cos\alpha)=Lg\left( m+\frac{M}{2} \right)(1-\cos\alpha)$$
$$E_f=\frac{1}{2}I\omega^2\rightarrow Lg\left( m+\frac{M}{2} \right)(1-\cos\alpha)=(mL^2+\frac{1}{3}ML^2)\omega^2\Rightarrow \omega^2=\frac{g\left( m+\frac{M}{2} \right)(1-\cos\alpha)}{L\left( m+\frac{1}{3}M \right)}$$
$$v=\frac{ L\left( m+\frac{1}{3}M \right) \omega }{m}=\sqrt{Lg\left( m+\frac{1}{3}M \right)\left(m+\frac{M}{2} \right)(1-\cos\alpha) }$$
$$\Delta E=Lg\left( m+\frac{M}{2} \right)(1-\cos\alpha)-\frac{1}{2}mv^2=Lg\left( m+\frac{M}{2} \right)(1-\cos\alpha) \left[1-\frac{m}{2}\left( m+\frac{M}{3}\right) \right]$$
 
The first two lines look fine.
In the third you seem to have lost a 1/m. (Check the dimensions.)
In the middle expression of the last line you seem to have lost an entire factor, but maybe that was just a transcription error.
The final expression is dimensionally inconsistent (inside the square brackets you have a constant term minus a mass2 term).
 
$$v=\frac{ L\left( m+\frac{1}{3}M \right) \omega }{m}=\frac{1}{m}\sqrt{Lg\left( m+\frac{1}{3}M \right)\left(m+\frac{M}{2} \right)(1-\cos\alpha) }$$
I don't think i missed a factor:
$$\Delta E=E_f-\frac{1}{2}mv^2$$
$$\Delta E=Lg\left( m+\frac{M}{2} \right)(1-\cos\alpha)-\frac{1}{2}mv^2=Lg\left( m+\frac{M}{2} \right)(1-\cos\alpha) \left[1-\frac{1}{2m}\left( m+\frac{M}{3}\right) \right]$$
And the units are correct, at least
 
Karol said:
$$E_f=\frac{1}{2}I\omega^2\rightarrow Lg\left( m+\frac{M}{2} \right)(1-\cos\alpha)=(mL^2+\frac{1}{3}ML^2)\omega^2$$

Haven't you lost an 1/2?
 
$$E_f=\frac{1}{2}I\omega^2\rightarrow Lg\left( m+\frac{M}{2} \right)(1-\cos\alpha)=\frac{1}{2}(mL^2+\frac{1}{3}ML^2)\omega^2\Rightarrow \omega^2=\frac{2g\left( m+\frac{M}{2} \right)(1-\cos\alpha)}{L\left( m+\frac{1}{3}M \right)}$$
And i understand that the rest is good
 
Karol said:
$$E_f=\frac{1}{2}I\omega^2\rightarrow Lg\left( m+\frac{M}{2} \right)(1-\cos\alpha)=\frac{1}{2}(mL^2+\frac{1}{3}ML^2)\omega^2\Rightarrow \omega^2=\frac{2g\left( m+\frac{M}{2} \right)(1-\cos\alpha)}{L\left( m+\frac{1}{3}M \right)}$$
And i understand that the rest is good
With the factor 2, it is correct.
 
Thank you ehild and haruspex (factor of 2...)
 

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