I Ballentine Equation 5.13 on conservation of momentum

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In the discussion about Ballentine's Equation 5.13 on conservation of momentum, participants focus on deriving the momentum of a hydrogen atom's bound electron using geometrical arguments. The initial confusion arises from the incorrect assumption about the angle between vectors ##\mathbf{P}_a## and ##\mathbf{P}_b##, which is clarified to be different from ##\pi - \phi##. Suggestions include breaking down the momentum vectors into their x, y, and z components to simplify calculations. Participants explore expressing these components in terms of the angles and magnitudes, noting that while the resulting equations may appear complex, they can be systematically derived. The discussion emphasizes the importance of accurately representing vector relationships in the context of the problem.
EE18
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In Chapter 5.3, Ballentine uses geometrical arguments to obtain the initial magnitude of a hydrogen atom's bound electron momentum. How does equation (5.13) obtain? I tried to naively compute
$$p_e^2 \equiv \textbf{p}_e\cdot \textbf{p}_e = p_a^2+p_b^2+p_o^2 + 2\textbf{p}_a\cdot \textbf{p}_b - 2\textbf{p}_a\cdot \textbf{p}_0 - 2\textbf{p}_0\cdot \textbf{p}_b $$ $$= p_a^2+p_b^2+p_o^2 + 2p_ap_b\cos(\pi - \phi) - 2p_ap_0\cos \theta - 2p_bp_0\cos \theta$$
but then could not go any further. Am I misunderstanding the geometrical relationships of the vectors in Figure 5.1?

Screen Shot 2023-03-29 at 10.27.43 AM.png
Screen Shot 2023-03-29 at 10.27.55 AM.png
 
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EE18 said:
$$p_e^2 \equiv \textbf{p}_e\cdot \textbf{p}_e = p_a^2+p_b^2+p_o^2 + 2\textbf{p}_a\cdot \textbf{p}_b - 2\textbf{p}_a\cdot \textbf{p}_0 - 2\textbf{p}_0\cdot \textbf{p}_b $$ $$= p_a^2+p_b^2+p_o^2 + 2p_ap_b\cos(\pi - \phi) - 2p_ap_0\cos \theta - 2p_bp_0\cos \theta$$
Am I misunderstanding the geometrical relationships of the vectors in Figure 5.1?
The angle between ##\mathbf{P}_a## and ##\mathbf{P}_b## is not ##\pi - \phi##.

##\mathbf{P}_a## lies in the yellow plane that makes angle ##\phi/2## to the horizontal gray plane. You might try finding expressions for the x, y, and z components of ##\mathbf{P}_a## (shown in blue).

1680112505407.png
 
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Likes Ishika_96_sparkles, malawi_glenn and PeroK
TSny said:
The angle between ##\mathbf{P}_a## and ##\mathbf{P}_b## is not ##\pi - \phi##.

##\mathbf{P}_a## lies in the yellow plane that makes angle ##\phi/2## to the horizontal gray plane. You might try finding expressions for the x, y, and z components of ##\mathbf{P}_a## (shown in blue).

View attachment 324201
Thank you so much for that diagram, it helps me tremendously.

It seems like I have, by symmetry, that ##\textbf{p}_a \cdot \textbf{p}_b = p_{ax}^2 -p_{ay}^2 + p_{az}^2##. It then remains to find these components in terms of the given angles and ##p_a##. Now clearly ##p_{az} = \tan(\phi/2)p_{ay}##, ##p_{az} = p_a \cos \theta##, and ##p_a^2 = p_{ax}^2 +p_{ay}^2 + p_{az}^2## so that at least in theory I have three equations with which I can substitute away ##p_{ax}^2 -p_{ay}^2 + p_{az}^2## in the above in terms of the angles and ##p_a##. However it seems very ugly -- is there a cleaner way to do it or is it necessarily ugly?
 
EE18 said:
Now clearly ##p_{az} = \tan(\phi/2)p_{ay}##, ##p_{az} = p_a \cos \theta##
I think you meant the second equation to represent ##p_{ax}##.

Consider writing ##\mathbf{p}_a## in unit vector notation $$\mathbf{p}_a =p_{ax} \mathbf{i} +p_{ay} \mathbf{j} +p_{az} \mathbf{k}$$ Each of the components can be expressed in terms of the magnitude ##p_a## and the angles ##\theta## and ##\phi/2##. For example, you know ##p_{ax} = p_a \cos \theta##.

Do the same for ##\mathbf{p}_b##.

For ##\mathbf{p}_o## we have simply ##\mathbf{p}_o = p_0 \mathbf{i}##. Then use equation (5.12) to find the component expression for ##\mathbf{p}_e##.
 

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