Obtaining Spherical Harmonics to Normalized Angular Wave Functions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of spherical harmonics from normalized angular wave functions, focusing on the normalization condition and the orthogonality of associated Legendre polynomials. Participants explore mathematical expressions and integration techniques related to these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the formula for spherical harmonics and expresses uncertainty about deriving the normalization coefficient A from the angular part Θ(θ).
  • Another participant notes that the expression for Φ(φ) is not normalized in φ and questions the orthogonality relation for the Legendre polynomial.
  • A participant provides the orthogonality relation for Legendre polynomials and discusses integration results, noting a zero value from integrating e^{2imφ} over the interval [0, 2π].
  • Further contributions reiterate the issue with the integration yielding zero and discuss the scalar product of spherical harmonics, emphasizing their complex nature.
  • One participant expresses confusion about obtaining the correct answer related to the normalization condition and suggests a potential error in their calculations regarding the integral results.
  • A later reply advises starting from the orthogonality condition and making a substitution to address the confusion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the normalization of the angular wave functions and the integration results, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the derivation process.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their understanding of the normalization process and the implications of the orthogonality condition, with unresolved mathematical steps and dependencies on specific definitions.

TimeRip496
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The normalized angular wave functions are called spherical harmonics: $$Y^m_l(\theta,\phi)=\epsilon\sqrt{\frac{(2l+1)}{4\pi}\frac{(l-|m|)!}{(l+|m|)!}}e^{im\phi}*P^m_l(cos\theta)$$
How do I obtain this from this(http://www.physics.udel.edu/~msafrono/424-2011/Lecture 17.pdf) (Page 8)?

The normalisation condition for Y is $$\int^{2\pi}_0\int^{\pi}_0|Y|^2\sin\theta d\theta d\phi=1$$ Note that 0<∅<2π and 0<θ<π.

$$Y=\Theta(\theta)*\Phi(\phi)$$.
$$\Theta(\theta)=A*P^m_l(cos\theta)$$ where A is the coefficient, x=cosθ, P is the associated Legendre Polynomial.
$$\Phi(\phi)=e^{im\phi}$$
$$Y^m_l(\theta,\phi)=A*e^{im\phi}P^m_l(cos\theta)$$
where $$A=\epsilon\sqrt{\frac{(2l+1)}{4\pi}\frac{(l-|m|)!}{(l+|m|)!}}$$.
I know how to obtain Φ but not A from Θ(θ), which is why I don't know how to obtain the spherical harmonics equation above.
 
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TimeRip496 said:
$$\Phi(\phi)=e^{im\phi}$$
Thats is not normalized in ##\phi##.

TimeRip496 said:
$$Y^m_l(\theta,\phi)=A*e^{im\phi}P^m_l(cos\theta)$$
where $$A=\epsilon\sqrt{\frac{(2l+1)}{4\pi}\frac{(l-|m|)!}{(l+|m|)!}}$$.
I know how to obtain Φ but not A from Θ(θ), which is why I don't know how to obtain the spherical harmonics equation above.
What is the orthogonality relation for the Legendre polynomial?
 
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DrClaude said:
Thats is not normalized in ##\phi##.What is the orthogonality relation for the Legendre polynomial?
DrClaude said:
Thats is not normalized in ##\phi##.What is the orthogonality relation for the Legendre polynomial?
They are orthogonal to each other.
$$\int^1_{-1}P^m_lP^m_ldx=\frac{2}{2p+1}\frac{(p+m)!}{(p-m)!}\delta_{pq}$$
$$\int^{2\pi}_{0}e^{2im\phi}\int^\pi_{0}A^2P^m_lP^m_lsin \theta d\theta d\phi=\int^{2\pi}_{0}e^{2im\phi}[A^2(\frac{4}{2p+1}\frac{(p+m)!}{(p-m)!})]d\phi$$
I am stuck at here cause when I integrate the e2im∅, I get a zero value which make the equation unsolvable.
$$\int^{2\pi}_{0}e^{2im\phi}d\phi=[\frac{e^{2im\phi}}{2im}]^{2\pi}_0=\frac{1}{2im}-\frac{1}{2im}=0$$
 
TimeRip496 said:
T
I am stuck at here cause when I integrate the e2im∅, I get a zero value which make the equation unsolvable.
$$\int^{2\pi}_{0}e^{2im\phi}d\phi=[\frac{e^{2im\phi}}{2im}]^{2\pi}_0=\frac{1}{2im}-\frac{1}{2im}=0$$
The spherical harmonics are complex, so the scalar product is
$$
\left( Y_l^m, Y_{l'}^{m'} \right) = \int_0^{2\pi} \int_0^\pi \left[ Y_l^{m} (\theta,\phi)\right]^* Y_{l'}^{m'} (\theta,\phi) \sin\theta d\theta d\phi
$$
 
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DrClaude said:
The spherical harmonics are complex, so the scalar product is
$$
\left( Y_l^m, Y_{l'}^{m'} \right) = \int_0^{2\pi} \int_0^\pi \left[ Y_l^{m} (\theta,\phi)\right]^* Y_{l'}^{m'} (\theta,\phi) \sin\theta d\theta d\phi
$$
Thanks but i still did not get the correct answer.
$$\int^{2\pi}_{0}e^{im\phi}*e^{-im\phi}d\phi=\int^{2\pi}_{0}e^{0}d\phi=2\pi$$
$$\int^{2\pi}_{0}e^{0}d\phi\int^\pi_{0}A^2P^m_lP^m_ld\theta\int^\pi_{0}sin \theta d\theta =(2\pi)[A^2(\frac{2}{2p+1}\frac{(p+m)!}{(p-m)!})](2)=[A^2(\frac{8}{2p+1}\frac{(p+m)!}{(p-m)!})]$$
Cause $$\int^{\pi}_0 sin\theta d\theta =2$$
The correct answer should be $$[A^2(\frac{4}{2p+1}\frac{(p+m)!}{(p-m)!})]$$ where it should be 4 instead of 8.
Where do I go wrong?
 
TimeRip496 said:
Cause $$\int^{\pi}_0 sin\theta d\theta =2$$
There is no such integral in the problem. Start from orthogonality condition you had in post #3 and make the substitution ##x = \cos \theta##.
 
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DrClaude said:
There is no such integral in the problem. Start from orthogonality condition you had in post #3 and make the substitution ##x = \cos \theta##.
Thanks a lot!
 

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