Basic set theory with quantors question

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on the interpretation of the logical expression ∃c . ∀a ∈ A . ∀b ∈ B . ¬(a = b) ∨ c = b, specifically in the context of set theory and quantifiers. The key conclusion is that for the statement to hold true, there can only be one element c that satisfies the condition for all pairs of elements a and b from sets A and B. The participants clarify that while the existential quantifier (∃) indicates the existence of at least one c, it must also fulfill the condition for every possible case, leading to the conclusion that the intersection of sets A and B can contain at most one element.

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  • Understanding of first-order logic and quantifiers
  • Basic knowledge of set theory, particularly intersections
  • Familiarity with logical expressions and their interpretations
  • Experience with discrete mathematics concepts
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  • Study the properties of existential and universal quantifiers in logic
  • Explore set theory, focusing on intersections and unions of sets
  • Learn about logical equivalences and implications in discrete mathematics
  • Practice translating logical expressions into natural language and vice versa
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This discussion is beneficial for teaching assistants, students of discrete mathematics, and anyone interested in deepening their understanding of logic and set theory concepts.

Smalde
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This is no homework for me.
I am working as a teaching assistant in a lecture about logic and discrete structures for Informatics students. This should be a piece of cake, but I am not exactly sure of the logic behind.

1. Homework Statement


Translate into words
∃c . ∀a ∈ A . ∀b ∈ B . ¬(a = b) ∨ c = b

The Attempt at a Solution



So obviously this means that there is a c such that for all a element of A and all b element of B either a is different than b or c is b or both.
The problem is that they also said that this means that the intersection of A and B has maximally one Element, 1 ≥ |A ∩ B|.My questions is how exactly can one conclude the last part. ∃c means that there is at least one, not necessarily only one.

Obviously for the statement to be true whenever a equals b c has to equal b and thus a, so either ¬(a = b) or a = b = c. But if there can be two cs this statement can be true for two different bs and as and so the intersection needs not be maximally 1...

Could you help me out?

PS: I am not sure if this has to be here... I can move it to another sub-forum if necessary.
 
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Smalde said:
But if there can be two cs

Suppose ##A = \{1,2,3\}##, ##B = \{4,2,3\}##. Can you find any c that satisfies the statement in the problem?
 
Stephen Tashi said:
Suppose ##A = \{1,2,3\}##, ##B = \{4,2,3\}##. Can you find any c that satisfies the statement in the problem?
Well 2 and 3. That's what I do not understand. I was told that the "there exists" symbol means that there exists at least one of something.
 
Smalde said:
Well 2 and 3. That's what I do not understand. I was told that the "there exists" symbol means that there exists at least one of something.
Ok, wait.

I think I get it now: there can exist more than one, but all ought to fulfill the statement in every one case. Is it so?
 
Smalde said:
Well 2 and 3.
Neither 2 nor 3 works.

For example c = 2 does not work for the case a = 3, b = 3.
 
Smalde said:
Ok, wait.

I think I get it now: there can exist more than one, but all ought to fulfill the statement in every one case. Is it so?

Stephen Tashi said:
Neither 2 nor 3 works.

For example c = 2 does not work for the case a = 3, b = 3.

Yes, that's what took me so long to understand. Those cs have to work for all possible cases where a equals b. In other words, in this case, there can only be one such c.

THANKS!
 

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