Basic skills that kids are lacking

[symbolipoint]

I just spotted an online article called Basic Life Skills Kids Today Are Lacking According To Teachers, on the Yahoo page. The link is
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/art...-lacking-according-to-teachers-200000544.html

I just barely started reading it, and so far only through the first paragraph, about reading analog clock and writing checks; and my reaction which I wish to say in the crude language of my choice is, excuse me: Are you {deleted} kidding?


edit: {deleted}
edit: Removed the rough language and its referenced description

 

[DaveE]

reading analog clock and writing checks

Why should they? Do you know how to milk a cow by hand, plow a field with oxen, shoe a horse, properly (or not) dispose of night soil, load and fire a musket, etc? Technology evolves, as does our necessary or useful knowledge.

They don't know these things because they don't need them. Kind of like me with group theory, I've forgotten all of it since school.

Also, I could teach an average teenager to write a check in about 2 minutes or less... if they cared.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Can we move this to the teaching forum?

 

[symbolipoint]

Why should they? Do you know how to milk a cow by hand, plow a field with oxen, shoe a horse, properly (or not) dispose of night soil, load and fire a musket, etc? Technology evolves, as does our necessary or useful knowledge.

Those examples form, even if becoming less common, actual jobs (like as employment) which people still perform. The only one in that list which seems no longer in use is firing a musket. A bit unfortunate that many of us have become separated from those basic skills you listed. "Milk a Cow"? Depends what is available where one lives as whether the technologies are available or not.

Main idea or part of it is ability to read an analog clock is too fundamental and will never lose its value. Writing with pen or pencil on actual paper is too fundamental and will never lose its value.

 

[symbolipoint]

Can we move this to the teaching forum?

Maybe; but unclear what should be done with it. This topic appears ready to go too much off-course.

 

[kuruman]

This is an account of a true event and thoughts at the time; I am not complaining or commiserating.

A few years back I was in my doctor's waiting room. A kid walked in and asked me if I knew what time it is. When I pointed to the (analog) wall clock above the receptionist, he gave me an exasperated look, slammed his knapsack on a seat, unzipped a side pocket, took out his cellphone, looked at it, nodded as if saying "Yes, I see" and sat down with a huff. I wondered how far in the future people will lose the skill of reading analog car speedometers.

 

[Nugatory]

I wondered how far in the future people will lose the skill of reading analog car speedometers.

I’ll conjecture that one sticks around for a long time. Analog maps more naturally to how we perceive and control motion.

 

[Nugatory]

Writing with pen or pencil on actual paper is too fundamental and will never lose its value.

Having read the article, I think it’s suggesting that specifically cursive is being lost, not pen and paper in general.

 

[vela]

They don't know these things because they don't need them.

While increasingly rare, there are still situations where they still need to know how to write a check.

Analogue clocks are still pretty common, so being able to read one is still useful. I like to tease my astro students and jokingly ask if they can read the clock in the classroom. Maybe I should stop doing that as I might be shaming some of them for not knowing how to.

 

[kuruman]

I’ll conjecture that one sticks around for a long time. Analog maps more naturally to how we perceive and control motion.

Are you saying that it's natural for people to read an analog display with a single hand, e.g. car speedometer, but it's understandable if they cannot read a similar display having two hands, one of which is advancing at one-twelfth of the speed of the other and the "zero" for both hands is at number 12?

 

[berkeman]

A few years back I was in my doctor's waiting room. A kid walked in and asked me if I knew what time it is. When I pointed to the (analog) wall clock above the receptionist, he gave me an exasperated look, slammed his knapsack on a seat, unzipped a side pocket, took out his cellphone, looked at it, nodded as if saying "Yes, I see" and sat down with a huff.

LOL, I have a slightly more obscure example. I was shooting hoops at a local park, and a young man walked up to me and said he was trying to decide whether to wait for the bus. He asked me if I knew what time it was, and I said that my watch was with my stuff over on a bench next to the court, and he was welcome to go check it. He replied that he did not know how to read an analog watch, and I assured him that it was a digital watch.

He got about half way to the bench before I remembered that my watch was set to military time (for my Medic work), so I jogged over to meet him at the bench to keep him from getting confused and frustrated.

 

[DaveE]

Those examples form, even if becoming less common, actual jobs (like as employment) which people still perform. The only one in that list which seems no longer in use is firing a musket. A bit unfortunate that many of us have become separated from those basic skills you listed. "Milk a Cow"? Depends what is available where one lives as whether the technologies are available or not.

Main idea or part of it is ability to read an analog clock is too fundamental and will never lose its value. Writing with pen or pencil on actual paper is too fundamental and will never lose its value.

Just like my Group Theory example. Still very useful to some, but it wasn't to me. People will learn what they need to know. It's appropriate for educators to introduce topics, but it's the students that will, a few years later perhaps, determine what is important.

I am really grateful that the University I attended really focused on basic STEM concepts and, literally, said you'll have to learn the specific application details yourself later. Hence my limited knowledge of thermodynamics. The "learn it later" part never happened, I didn't need it. But I do know what it is. This is how I think some of these anachronistic technologies should be addressed.

 

[DaveE]

He replied that he did not know how to read an analog watch

Oh slammed dude. He thinks you're THAT old! LOL.

 

[renormalize]

He replied that he did not know how to read an analog watch, and I assured him that it was a digital watch.

I'm curious how such kids learn to intuit and visualize the concepts of "clockwise" and "counter-clockwise" so as to be able to perform practical tasks based on pithy advice like "righty tighty, lefty loosey". In a future with no analog clocks will everyone have to understand the right-hand rule?

 

[kuruman]

In a future with no analog clocks will everyone have to understand the right-hand rule?

As long as they can get from the web which is the right hand, they will be OK. Just to make sure that they will be able to, I googled "what is the definition of right hand?" and I got,

The phrase "right hand" generally refers to the hand on the right side of the body.​

Not wishing to give up, I then googled "what is the definition of right side of the body?" and I got,

The right side of the body refers to the entire right half of a person's anatomy, determined by dividing the body down the exact vertical center (the midline). Crucially, this is always viewed from the perspective of the patient (the individual being examined), not the observer.​

I gave up.

 

[Nugatory]

Are you saying that it's natural for people to read an analog display with a single hand, e.g. car speedometer, but it's understandable if they cannot read a similar display having two hands, one of which is advancing at one-twelfth of the speed of the other and the "zero" for both hands is at number 12?

I think a clock and a speedometer (or tachometer, which as a one-time autocrosser is more what I was thinking about) are fundamentally different.
Reading a clock, especially at one-minute granularity is for all practical purposes a static observation; it changes, but at rate that is long compared to human reflex time. I feel about clocks the same way that I feel about digital vs old-fashioned vernier micrometers: yes, I enjoy the old-school feel of the old-school tool, but the digital display is way more convenient.

But for a speedometer and especially the tachometer, "needle THERE moving THAT fast" connects to motion control in a way that a multi-digit display doesn't.
This may be why glass cockpits in aircraft so often display an needle-style gauge even if they're drawing it with pixels on a screen.

 

[vela]

As long as they can get from the web which is the right hand, they will be OK. Just to make sure that they will be able to, I googled "what is the definition of right hand?" and I got,

The phrase "right hand" generally refers to the hand on the right side of the body.​

Not wishing to give up, I then googled "what is the definition of right side of the body?" and I got,

The right side of the body refers to the entire right half of a person's anatomy, determined by dividing the body down the exact vertical center (the midline). Crucially, this is always viewed from the perspective of the patient (the individual being examined), not the observer.​

I gave up.

You can go old school and look it up in a dictionary. According to the American Heritage Dictionary, the definition of right is "Of, belonging to, located on, or being the side of the body to the south when the subject is facing east."

This is what I got when I searched for "what are the definitions of 'left' and 'right'?"

In their primary sense, "left" and "right" are spatial directions relative to the orientation of a human body.

• Left: The direction towards the west when facing north; typically associated with the side of the body where the heart is located.
• Right: The direction towards the east when facing north; traditionally considered the dominant or "correct" side in many cultures, as reflected in the etymology of the word in various languages.

 

[gmax137]

The barber I used to go to had a clock in his shop with the hands going backwards (counter-clockwise) and the numbers reversed. So he could see what time it was by looking in the mirror. That might be a "trick question"

EDIT

 

[symbolipoint]

Having read the article, I think it’s suggesting that specifically cursive is being lost, not pen and paper in general.

I am not sure which way to go on that one. I had my own argument with somebody about the need for learning to read and write in Cursive.

 

[symbolipoint]

As long as they can get from the web which is the right hand, they will be OK. Just to make sure that they will be able to, I googled "what is the definition of right hand?" and I got,

The phrase "right hand" generally refers to the hand on the right side of the body.​

Not wishing to give up, I then googled "what is the definition of right side of the body?" and I got,

The right side of the body refers to the entire right half of a person's anatomy, determined by dividing the body down the exact vertical center (the midline). Crucially, this is always viewed from the perspective of the patient (the individual being examined), not the observer.​

I gave up.

A better term or terms to search would be maybe, Clockwise or Counter-clockwise.

 

[PAllen]

Recursion: see recursion

 

[BillTre]

As long as they can get from the web which is the right hand, they will be OK. Just to make sure that they will be able to, I googled "what is the definition of right hand?" and I got,

The phrase "right hand" generally refers to the hand on the right side of the body.​

Not wishing to give up, I then googled "what is the definition of right side of the body?" and I got,

The right side of the body refers to the entire right half of a person's anatomy, determined by dividing the body down the exact vertical center (the midline). Crucially, this is always viewed from the perspective of the patient (the individual being examined), not the observer.​

I gave up.

A good picture would suffice.

 

[PeroK]

While increasingly rare, there are still situations where they still need to know how to write a check.

Analogue clocks are still pretty common, so being able to read one is still useful. I like to tease my astro students and jokingly ask if they can read the clock in the classroom. Maybe I should stop doing that as I might be shaming some of them for not knowing how to.

I find it hard to believe that an intelligent adult couldn't figure out how an analog clock works. You could compare a digital time with the position of the hands. Then check again in five minutes. It shouldn't be difficult to see how it works.

The only serious issue I can see is that it cuts ties to the past. I feel that young modern actors, for example, have no understanding of anything but their contemporary lives. Television series from the 1970s that were set in the past have an atmosphere that suggests the time they were set. Whereas, modern television feels like contemporary characters dressed up in old-fashioned clothes, with little concession to how people from the past thought, spoke and behaved.

 

[Herman Trivilino]

Maybe I should stop doing that as I might be shaming some of them for not knowing how to.

Children are raised in a cuddle culture. Never told they are wrong. We don't want them to experience shame or disappointment, yet we are dismayed that they are unable to learn.

 

[WWGD]

As long as they can get from the web which is the right hand, they will be OK. Just to make sure that they will be able to, I googled "what is the definition of right hand?" and I got,

The phrase "right hand" generally refers to the hand on the right side of the body.​

Not wishing to give up, I then googled "what is the definition of right side of the body?" and I got,

The right side of the body refers to the entire right half of a person's anatomy, determined by dividing the body down the exact vertical center (the midline). Crucially, this is always viewed from the perspective of the patient (the individual being examined), not the observer.​

I gave up.

There's a page : whichoneismyrighthand.com *And another for whatismyage.com , where they just need to enter their year of birth. But more seriously, and more sadly : https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/tech...ss-intelligent-than-their-parents/ar-AA1WVDz8

Not sure it's accurate, or, if it is, it's related to the topic we're discussing here.

Young topologists will ask if it's an invariant, or if it depends on where , how they stand ;).

 

[Janus]

You can go old school and look it up in a dictionary. According to the American Heritage Dictionary, the definition of right is "Of, belonging to, located on, or being the side of the body to the south when the subject is facing east."

This is what I got when I searched for "what are the definitions of 'left' and 'right'?"

That's assuming that one knows the relationship between North, South, East and West.

 

[Averagesupernova]

That's assuming that one knows the relationship between North, South, East and West.

Yes. Now imagine looking up definitions of North, South, East and West only to find: At sunrise if you are facing the sun you are facing East and West is behind you while South is on the right and North is on the left. Circularity in definitions. That sort of thing seems trivial but I'd imagine a serious matter in metrology concerning traceability and standards.
-
Defining left and right without any other references is probably best defined by saying the human heartbeat is most noticeable on the person's left. Any record of people who are put together 'mirrored'?

 

[DaveE]

Any record of people who are put together 'mirrored'?

yes, Situs inversus.

 

[WWGD]

yes, Situs inversus.

Wasn't there a big issue re some scientists wanting to experiment with designing reverse symmetry virus, bacteria, for which there would be no cure?

 

[Averagesupernova]

yes, Situs inversus.

Hmm. Interesting.