Basic skills that kids are lacking

[PeroK]

I haven't written a cheque in the last 10 years. In fact, I destroyed my cheque books years ago.

 

[symbolipoint]

I haven't written a cheque in the last 10 years. In fact, I destroyed my cheque books years ago.

Records! Documentation! Hard-print Proof! Important advice is, always keep your records.

The obvious argument against that is, Too Much Papers to Keep and to File; make scanned files of everything and keep those as in some kind of "disc" storage.

 

[Bandersnatch]

I am myself getting somewhat longer in the tooth, yet I've never written a cheque in my life, nor know anyone who has. I barely even used cash in the past decade or so.
I grew up with analogue clocks everywhere, but would not be affected in any way if they all suddenly disappeared of the walls and clock towers.
Also, while automatic transmission has been making some headway in the past few years, it remains in a significant minority of cars around where I live.

Which is to say, y'all kinda sorta judging what kids should or shouldn't know by the standards of your time and place, which are decidedly not universal. Which in turn is to say, the kids today are alright. They've been alright throughout the centuries, despite a long line of curmudgeonly geezers complaining about their incomprehensible ways. They'll learn what they need to get ahead - as they always have - ignore the rest, and be fine.

Then they'll grow old and start complaining themselves, likely via some communication medium as unfathomable to us as an internet forum was to our grandparents.
It's the circle of life, what can you do.

 

[PeroK]

A few years ago I warned my girl friend, who was technically challenged, that the world would be merciless to those who couldn't do things online. She got an iPad and has never looked back.

There is no other way to book her gym classes, for example. If @symbolipoint turned up at the Porchester leisure centre, trying to book and pay for an exercise class with his chequebook, he would be turned away!

 

[symbolipoint]

If @symbolipoint turned up at the Porchester leisure centre, trying to book and pay for an exercise class with his chequebook, he would be turned away!

Cash still works for some things; I would not know about making arrangements in advance at that leisure center.

 

[berkeman]

I am myself getting somewhat longer in the tooth,

From your Profile/About page:

(Age: 43)

 

[Bandersnatch]

What can I say. That 'somewhat' may be doing a bit of heavy lifting there, but certain... dark desires have started to stir in me already. Most notably, the desire to sit by my window and tell those whippersnappers to get off my lawn. It's only downhill from there.

 

[Averagesupernova]

...y'all kinda sorta judging what kids should or shouldn't know by the standards of your time and place, which are decidedly not universal.

Some things are. Some are not.
-
I pay most of my bills by check. Some bills I get simply say that it is due upon receipt. Some say it is due at the first of the month and it arrived in my mailbox only a few days before the first of the month. These are tactics used to get people over to direct withdrawal out of their account. They make it difficult to pay your bill. Some businesses that I deal with I have a credit account with. Some months it's thousands of dollars charged, other months none. At the end of the month they send a statement and I have a month to pay.
-
Years ago my parents subscribed to a newspaper that came in the mail. They would send the bill stating it was due upon receipt and several days later my parents would get a phone call from them complaining that they hadn't gotten their money yet. This was a push for direct withdrawal. They like direct withdrawal because it is so easy to just let it go another month. Pretty soon you forgot that you're even paying for.
-
The younger generation(s) are so used to having things at a click of the mouse they cannot be bothered to pay for stuff the old fashioned way. That often comes at a cost.

 

[Muu9]

Some things are. Some are not.
-
I pay most of my bills by check. Some bills I get simply say that it is due upon receipt. Some say it is due at the first of the month and it arrived in my mailbox only a few days before the first of the month. These are tactics used to get people over to direct withdrawal out of their account. They make it difficult to pay your bill. Some businesses that I deal with I have a credit account with. Some months it's thousands of dollars charged, other months none. At the end of the month they send a statement and I have a month to pay.
-
Years ago my parents subscribed to a newspaper that came in the mail. They would send the bill stating it was due upon receipt and several days later my parents would get a phone call from them complaining that they hadn't gotten their money yet. This was a push for direct withdrawal. They like direct withdrawal because it is so easy to just let it go another month. Pretty soon you forgot that you're even paying for.
-
The younger generation(s) are so used to having things at a click of the mouse they cannot be bothered to pay for stuff the old fashioned way. That often comes at a cost.

What is the cost of setting up your bills to auto-deduct from your account?

 

[Janus]

I always wanted to learn how to read, but I've only ever seen it in books...

I write checks every month: water bill, garbage pickup, cable/internet, electricity, propane, car insurance, credit card bill. I resist having money deducted from my account automatically, primarily because if the credit card gets hacked, which happens more than I like, it's a PITA to have to go through all of those accounts and reset the credit card account number when you get a new card. Also, I resent having to pay an extra 3% or so if you pay by credit card. It used to be that paying by debit card was the same as paying by check, but alas, many vendors now charge an extra fee for using a debit card, so I often just pay cash. For some large purchases, like cars and motorcycles, many sellers will accept only cash or bank drafts.

Back on the original topic, a skill that is becoming increasingly rare, is the ability to drive a car with a manual transmission. I have a decal on one of my two cars that have this type of transmission. Said decal shows a 6-speed manual shift pattern, with the words, "This vehicle is equipped with a Millennial Anti-Theft Device."

Mailing a check isn't much safer. Mail theft is a real thing. My wife and I were very carefull about only using official mail boxes to mail anything that contained a check, but still had one intercepted, and then used to forge fake checks written against our account. Our check was intercepted on the other end, so what we did on our end didn't matter. We had to close that account and start fresh with a new one, which was a hassle, since we still had checks written on the first account that hadn't cleared yet.

 

[Averagesupernova]

What is the cost of setting up your bills to auto-deduct from your account?

I'm not sure what you are really asking here. If you are replying to:

That often comes at a cost.

...then you have missed the point.

 

[symbolipoint]

What is the cost of setting up your bills to auto-deduct from your account?

Not any significant monetary cost. The cost is whatever the time and processes to learn to arrange the automatic payment; including possibly taking time to get advice or help either in a bank branch in person or through telephone call, and making your online account selections.

edit: small spelling adjustment

 

[vela]

I write checks every month: water bill, garbage pickup, cable/internet, electricity, propane, car insurance, credit card bill. I resist having money deducted from my account automatically, primarily because if the credit card gets hacked, which happens more than I like, it's a PITA to have to go through all of those accounts and reset the credit card account number when you get a new card. Also, I resent having to pay an extra 3% or so if you pay by credit card.

Here, we don't see a surcharge for using a credit card for most bills. Typically, you only see a surcharge when dealing with the government, like paying the DMV or paying property taxes. You can avoid those fees by having the payment deducted electronically from a checking or saving account. Some utilities don't accept credit cards, so electronic payments are again directly from a checking or savings account.

For some large purchases, like cars and motorcycles, many sellers will accept only cash or bank drafts.

A young friend bought a new car last year but told me she had never written a check. (She was taught how to write one in fifth grade though.) When I asked her how she made the down payment on the car, she said she just gave the dealer her checking account number and bank's routing number so the dealer could do an electronic transfer.

 

[mathwonk]

Is it possible there are people today who think kids no longer need to know Euclidean geometry!? Or the Riemann - Roch theorem? Perhaps I was born slightly too early.

Am I also wrong they at least still need to know how to change out the toilet tank flapper?

 

[symbolipoint]

Is it possible there are people today who think kids no longer need to know Euclidean geometry!? Or the Riemann - Roch theorem? Perhaps I was born slightly too early.

Am I also wrong they at least still need to know how to change out the toilet tank flapper?

If so, (what put as bold), then very sad. At least for loss of richness. Some of us could think back in our lives: Might have some of us needed to have a course in college/university, if not also in high school, and yet might have used damn too little of it in our jobs or works; but getting through and learning it even temporarily gave us a richness which is difficult to describe.

An Edit for Clarity: ,... and yet might have used d__mned little of it in our jobs or works; but getting through and even temporarily learning it gave us a richness which is difficult to describe.
(this is mostly a wording reordering.)

 

[DaveE]

Is it possible there are people today who think kids no longer need to know Euclidean geometry!? Or the Riemann - Roch theorem? Perhaps I was born slightly too early.

Yes, I do think it is possible that kids today don't need to learn the Riemann - Roch theorem.
I don't think your birthdate is the issue in this case.

 

[mathwonk]

I should have mentioned I was the original referee for Riemann's paper. Unfortunately I rejected it for lack of detail, but they apparently found someone less critical!
[just kidding: I was actually the most recent reviewer:
https://kendrick.press/Bernhard-Riemann-Collected-Papers.htm]

 

[Mark44]

A young friend bought a new car last year but told me she had never written a check. (She was taught how to write one in fifth grade though.) When I asked her how she made the down payment on the car, she said she just gave the dealer her checking account number and bank's routing number so the dealer could do an electronic transfer.

One car I bought about 4 years ago was a 2002 Porshe 911, from a private seller who advertised it on craigslist. I brought with me a bank draft from my bank (B of A) for an amount below the asking price plus a bunch of 100s. We agreed on a price but the seller refused to accept the bank draft, citing concerns that he had heard of some instances where the bank drafts were forged. I had to return the next day with an appreciable stack of hondos to cinch the deal, $24,000 in all.

I have since traded in the car for a newer 911 (2009 Carrera S) was quite a bit more in price, but I paid for the balance, after the trade-in, with a bank draft.

 

[symbolipoint]

stack of hondos to cinch the deal

On occasion, nice to learn a new slang word!

 

[sbrothy]

In my experience, if you find children who are interesting in learning they will suck up complex numbers at a 6. grade level. The teacher is important but the student's willingness perhaps even more so.

 

[symbolipoint]

In my experience, if you find children who are interesting in learning they will suck up complex numbers at a 6. grade level. The teacher is important but the student's willingness perhaps even more so.

The part put as bold is what really makes a large amount of sense.

 

[sbrothy]

The part put as bold is what really makes a large amount of sense.

Indeed, and I must admit that my experience is from courses children or adolescents could sign up for of their own free will. That made a lot of difference as you can imagine!

 

[DaveE]

The teacher is important but the student's willingness perhaps even more so.

Motivation is the first step in teaching. Students will only rarely learn and remember things that they don't think are interesting or useful. IMO, EVERY course should start with "what", "why", and "what's cool about it".

So, tell me all y'all, which subject did you have to study in school that you weren't interested in or didn't like that you actually used or needed later? I'm sure there's some, but I bet it's a very short list.

I imagine that it's pretty hard to motivate a 16 year old today to learn to write checks.

 

[symbolipoint]

which subject did you have to study in school that you weren't interested in or didn't like that you actually used or needed later? I'm sure there's some, but

"English" (as in "high school English" which included various Literatures) and all of the "Social Studies" (Government, History, and like that). The next step in your question I cannot say exactly for myself. That part becomes far too complicated!

 

[BillTre]

So, tell me all y'all, which subject did you have to study in school that you weren't interested in or didn't like that you actually used or needed later? I'm sure there's some, but I bet it's a very short list.

Interesting question.
I have always been very interested in biology, but have always wanted to consider it from hierarchically lower levels of organization (like physics and chemistry build to biology). Of course there is a lot to learn before things start to link up really nicely. I took lots of science courses to do this.
Physics was fine for me. So was simple chemistry. Organic chemistry and onward got increasingly less interesting to me as the possible combinations of atoms become much more Baroque in their arrangements and reactions. until I took Biochem. In biochemistry I could see how particular chemistry things matched up with particular aspects of biology. As a result, my interested increased again.

There's also English. My dad was an English major, so I tended to avoid. (In my family there seems to be an alternation between tech orientation and more arts and literature from generation to generation in the first born males. I can track it for 4 generations.). Needless to say, I have found those kinds of skills very useful and wish I had developed them earlier.

 

[sbrothy]

"English" (as in "high school English" which included various Literatures) and all of the "Social Studies" (Government, History, and like that). The next step in your question I cannot say exactly for myself. That part becomes far too complicated!

I was a real nerd (or geek), I don't know the proper nomenclature. I had a hard time with my body-image in PE. Not that I didn't want or dare to take communal baths with other people. It wasn't that severe. I just hated PE.

Until one day we got a new teacher, a young guy fresh from the teachers academy. From there on out PE was suddenly fun. Weirdly, I don't even remeber the teacher before him. Admittedly, this was in elemtary school, but he can't have made much of an imprint.

Later in my life, I've had the pleasure of teaching elementary-level kids simple math and programming. That has been a joy I would not trade for anything else.

 

[sbrothy]

Interesting question.
I have always been very interested in biology, but have always wanted to consider it from hierarchically lower levels of organization (like physics and chemistry build to biology). Of course there is a lot to learn before things start to link up really nicely. I took lots of science courses to do this.
Physics was fine for me. So was simple chemistry. Organic chemistry and onward got increasingly less interesting to me as the possible combinations of atoms become much more Baroque in their arrangements and reactions. until I took Biochem. In biochemistry I could see how particular chemistry things matched up with particular aspects of biology. As a result, my interested increased again.

There's also English. My dad was an English major, so I tended to avoid. (In my family there seems to be an alternation between tech orientation and more arts and literature from generation to generation in the first born males. I can track it for 4 generations.). Needless to say, I have found those kinds of skills very useful and wish I had developed them earlier.

I had biology in high-school on a fairly high level. That was when the HIV-scare was running amok. T-helper cells and what not. Man, that was boring, and nothing I'd ever use unless I would study medicine!

 

[sbrothy]

Motivation is the first step in teaching. Students will only rarely learn and remember things that they don't think are interesting or useful. IMO, EVERY course should start with "what", "why", and "what's cool about it".

So, tell me all y'all, which subject did you have to study in school that you weren't interested in or didn't like that you actually used or needed later? I'm sure there's some, but I bet it's a very short list.

I imagine that it's pretty hard to motivate a 16 year old today to learn to write checks.

I'm guessing that depends how much is on their chcking account. Now balancing it on the other hand....

 

[BillTre]

Man, that was boring, and nothing I'd ever use unless I would study medicine!

Depends on what you do. Apparently nothing biological involving plants, animals, of fungi.

 

[symbolipoint]

I had biology in high-school on a fairly high level. That was when the HIV-scare was running amok. T-helper cells and what not. Man, that was boring, and nothing I'd ever use unless I would study medicine!

Biology of most levels at that category was, to say it economically, not suited for me. I did what high school required. Later I did the minimum that was needed for college/university education and stayed away from any and all as much as possible. Later, within about 5 years after undergraduate degree and some work experience, (certainly not in anything dedicated to biological sciences), I returned to a local college just for a single introductory Microbiology course. Great Course, and seemed clearer and more organized than the other Bio courses I had. Also at least a little bit useful. Occasional useful observations in laboratory work; also helpful in brewing beer and making yogurt at home.