How Do You Determine the Basicity of Nitrogen Heterocycles?

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on determining the basicity of nitrogen heterocycles, specifically piperidine, pyridine, pyrrolidone, and diphenylamine. It concludes that piperidine is the strongest base due to its aliphatic nature, while pyrrolidone is less basic because of the carbonyl group acting as a pi acceptor. The presence of acidic phenyl rings in diphenylamine further decreases its basicity. The participants clarify that pyrrole is not among the compounds being analyzed.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of amine basicity and factors affecting it
  • Familiarity with nitrogen heterocycles, specifically piperidine and pyridine
  • Knowledge of sp2 hybridization and its impact on basicity
  • Awareness of the role of carbonyl groups in amides
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the basicity of various nitrogen heterocycles
  • Learn about the effects of hybridization on basicity in organic compounds
  • Study the influence of substituents on the basicity of amines
  • Explore the properties of amides and their protonation behavior
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Chemistry students, organic chemists, and anyone studying the basicity of nitrogen-containing compounds.

baldbrain
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Homework Statement


Select the correct order of basicity of the following compounds:
IMG_20180630_184900.JPG

The Attempt at a Solution


Obviously, (i) is more basic than (iv) because of the 2 acidic phenyl rings in (iv). Also, I know that amides are much less basic than amines. So, that leaves me with either (B) or (C). Further, due to the sp2 hybrid N atom in pyrrole, it is weakly basic.
But how do I decide it's basicity relative to the rest?
Also, though it's clear from (B) & (C) that (iii) will be less basic than both (i) & (iv), how do I decide that the phenyl rings in (iv) won't decrease the basicity to such an extent that (iii) will get more basic?
 

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Here's a good introduction to amine basicity:
https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2017/04/26/5-factors-that-affect-basicity-of-amines/
baldbrain said:
(i) is more basic than (iv) because of the 2 acidic phenyl rings in (iv). Also, I know that amides are much less basic than amines. So, that leaves me with either (B) or (C)
Yes, yes, yes.
baldbrain said:
Further, due to the sp2 hybrid N atom in pyrrole, it is weakly basic.
None of these molecules are pyrrole. There's piperidine (i), pyridine (ii), pyrrolidone (iii), and diphenylamine (iv).
baldbrain said:
Also, though it's clear from (B) & (C) that (iii) will be less basic than both (i) & (iv), how do I decide that the phenyl rings in (iv) won't decrease the basicity to such an extent that (iii) will get more basic?
The carbonyl group is a really good pi acceptor (and also a half-decent proton acceptor), so in general amides really really don't want to be protonated.
 
TeethWhitener said:
None of these molecules are pyrrole.
Sorry! Confused pyridine for pyrrole.
 
Ok, so from the link, the answer would be (C)
 
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baldbrain said:
Ok, so from the link, the answer would be (C)
Yes, the big giveaway (or shortcut, now that I'm looking closely at the possible answers) is that piperidine (the aliphatic amine) will be a much stronger base than the rest of them.
 
TeethWhitener said:
Yes, the big giveaway (or shortcut, now that I'm looking closely at the possible answers) is that piperidine (the aliphatic amine) will be a much stronger base than the rest of them.
Right:wink:
 

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