Being proud of your heritage/culture?

[turbo]

For a little perspective, when I was a sprout, we were allowed to keep brook trout over 6" in length and could take home 12 a day. As a kid of 5,6,7 or older, what might you think about your mother's reaction when you brought home a dozen brook trout 6-8" or more for supper? Fishing and bush-whacking through the woods were fun to me, but essential to the family, I think. When I was young, my mother always insisted that if I was going fishing, I had to go with older kids from the neighborhood. I learned early that if I lied and went alone, I could come home with more fish.

BTW, the nearest brook was over a mile away if I took a direct route through the woods and if I fished it to the head-waters and walked back home I easily had to cover 10+ miles. At least I wasn't home listening to my 3 sisters whining about everything.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Ultimately people want to think they are amazing individuals. And, in my experience, the less amazing a person is, the more desperate they become. Claiming the glory of ones ancestors is often the first step since it is mildly accepted in our culture. I always found this funny with Columbus because I've personally heard spaniards, jews, french and italians all claim some affinity to him (especially since, from my limited understanding, the guy was a douche). However, this is just another manifestation of what is known in psychology as "Cognitive Dissonance". Which is basically the psychological phenomena that when one's actions/state is in conflict with ones beliefs/perspective ones beliefs/persepctives tend to change to match their actions/state (as opposed to the other way around). I met a woman once who claimed that the value of a person was related to their ability to knit (not lying). She of course had some asinine reasoning about discipline and willpower and attention to small detail and such. But I'm sure it's no surprise to anyone to find that she was quite an experienced knitter. What a coincidence, a world view of the value of people where she resides at the top? Now of course all of us are guilty of this to some degree but some are certainly more guilty than others. Some claim the value of a person is in their grammar skill, others in their lack of swearing, still others in their mathematical ability (*wink*, *nod*). It's all somewhat arbitrary and I've always thought that pride in ones heritage was just an extension of this (I am an awesome person because I have the blood of ethnicity X and they've done awesome things).

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Cult of nation, cult of blood, cult of religion; it's all the same deal.

 

[noblegas]

Yeah, I really don't understand how you can be proud of your heritage or proud of the accomplishments a few members of your ethnicgroup/racial group are responsible for but you yourself are not; I also find it funny that people will take pride in the accomplishments members of their race/ethnic group might be responsible for , but not take pride in some of the things we liked to forget like spainiards and english basically wiping the bulk of another "race" of people , or the Salem witch trials , the crusades, cannibalism, etc;just blank out any disaster in human history your ancestor might have participated in just because you don't like it; People also like to ignore the behaviors their ancestors might have practiced , like rape and pedophilia, that may have helped continued your genetic lineage;

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Yeah, I really don't understand how you can be proud of your heritage or proud of the accomplishments a few members of your ethnicgroup/racial group are responsible for but you yourself are not; I also find it funny that people will take pride in the accomplishments members of their race/ethnic group might be responsible for , but not take pride in some of the things we liked to forget like spainiards and english basically wiping the bulk of another "race" of people , or the Salem witch trials , the crusades, cannibalism, etc;just blank out any disaster in human history your ancestor might have participated in just because you don't like it; People also like to ignore the behaviors their ancestors might have practiced , like rape and pedophilia, that may have helped continued your genetic lineage;

Also members of a group whose actions and ideas do not correspond to the rightousness of the group that other members perceive are obviously found to not be 'true' members of said group.

 

[Sorry!]

So if say my father had won some sort of competition I'm not allowed to be proud of him?

I'm Metis (french/native...mostly french) and I'm quite proud of my heritage. The Natives had to put up with a lot and the Metis weren't really well respected by anyone... They still fought through everything though and hearing stories from my family that were passed down is pretty awesome... So yeah I do like my heritage but I'm also PROUD of it. Can you be proud of the Native Americans/Metis peoples? Yeah sure why not but that's not what the OP is about. It's specifically being proud about your own culture/heritage.

I also do share the same pride in other cultures since we are all human and we should all be proud of all the accomplishments. It's just easier and quicker to relate to what you're most accustomed to.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

So if say my father had won some sort of competition I'm not allowed to be proud of him?

I'm Metis (french/native...mostly french) and I'm quite proud of my heritage. The Natives had to put up with a lot and the Metis weren't really well respected by anyone... They still fought through everything though and hearing stories from my family that were passed down is pretty awesome... So yeah I do like my heritage but I'm also PROUD of it. Can you be proud of the Native Americans/Metis peoples? Yeah sure why not but that's not what the OP is about. It's specifically being proud about your own culture/heritage.

I also do share the same pride in other cultures since we are all human and we should all be proud of all the accomplishments. It's just easier and quicker to relate to what you're most accustomed to.

Yes, but you are not Louis Riel. You've faced your own challenges with, probably, different outcomes. If your cultural tradition is so respect worthy then it should be expressed through you. Not vague pointings to the past saying "I may not embody these virtues but my fathers, step-uncles, second cousin did"

 

[Sorry!]

Yes, but you are not Louis Riel. You've faced your own challenges with, probably, different outcomes. If your cultural tradition is so respect worthy then it should be expressed through you. Not vague pointings to the past saying "I may not embody these virtues but my fathers, step-uncles, second cousin did"

So you sir are not proud of actions your country has taken? Like when my grandfather tells stories about the wars I can't be proud? I can't be a proud Canadian because I of the actions my country has taken (even before my time)?

This is rediculous.

Just to make sure I wasn't crazy I looked up the word and proud and I don't see why I can't be proud of things I had no part in.

Pride:
a feeling of self-respect and personal worth
satisfaction with your (or another's) achievements; "he takes pride in his son's success"
the trait of being spurred on by a dislike of falling below your standards

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Just to make sure I wasn't crazy I looked up the word and proud and I don't see why I can't be proud of things I had no part in.

Pride seems to indicate a personal feeling and involvement. Generally when you have a profound feeling about something you personally had no involvement in it is referred to in other ways such as 'respect' or 'reverence'. Obviously when we see people taking pride in cultures and nations it is because they are identifying with these things and seeing themselves as a part of it. So the question really is to what degree can you logically identify with a culture or nation so as to take personal pride in it?

 

[morphism]

The philosopher () George Carlin once remarked, "I could never understand ethnic or national pride, because to me pride should be reserved for something you achieve or attain on your own -- not something that happens by accident of birth."

Seems pretty sensible to me.

 

[junglebeast]

The idea of having pride in your culture and heritage confuses me though. I just don't understand what it means to have pride in people you don't know, most of whom are dead, or cultures which you had no part in creating really. Someone enlighten me, san francisco style. Wait just kidding, enlighten me in a way that's logical.

It's the same as having pride and rooting for your local sports team, even though you're not a member of the team. I think it's people that don't actually have anything real to be proud of who adopt this mentality.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

So you sir are not proud of actions your country has taken? Like when my grandfather tells stories about the wars I can't be proud? I can't be a proud Canadian because I of the actions my country has taken (even before my time)?

This is rediculous.

Just to make sure I wasn't crazy I looked up the word and proud and I don't see why I can't be proud of things I had no part in.

Pride:
a feeling of self-respect and personal worth
satisfaction with your (or another's) achievements; "he takes pride in his son's success"
the trait of being spurred on by a dislike of falling below your standards

If a person is a complete douche and waste of flesh but is descended from a line of noble and amazing people is he more respect worthy then another complete douche and waste of flesh who was descended from nobodies? Should the distant relatives of Hitler feel shame in who they are?

 

[maverick_starstrider]

The achievements of your ancestors are just that. They're THEIR achievements. To me, your worth is entirely based on YOUR achievements. You can certainly RESPECT your ancestors but to "take pride" is to TAKE something from their respect to attempt to give it to yourself. You're trying to feel better about yourself because of something you had nothing to do with.

 

[Sorry!]

If a person is a complete douche and waste of flesh but is descended from a line of noble and amazing people is he more respect worthy then another complete douche and waste of flesh who was descended from nobodies? Should the distant relatives of Hitler feel shame in who they are?

Can they still be proud of things their family has done? Who said anything about other people giving that person respect? I'm sure people who kill other people sometimes are proud of what they've done. They still get no respect from me. So I have no idea where you're going with this.

You CAN be proud of your family name. No this does not mean you fall back on it, no this doesn't mean you haven't accomplished anything yourself. The OP wasn't about is it OK to have pride in these things it was if it makes sense.
And yeah, if a person is so inclined to be ashamed of things people in their family history have done then they have every right to.

 

[Sorry!]

The achievements of your ancestors are just that. They're THEIR achievements. To me, your worth is entirely based on YOUR achievements. You can certainly RESPECT your ancestors but to "take pride" is to TAKE something from their respect to attempt to give it to yourself. You're trying to feel better about yourself because of something you had nothing to do with.

I think what you're actually saying here is 'yes it is possible for a person to take pride in such things'

 

[echelonIV]

Being proud of ones heritage/culture, I think, has to do with with the environment in which one grew up in. A lot of people I know who feel proud of their heritage grew up in families who came from collectivistic cultures or some other minority group (I live in America), so it seems like they would have some sort of natural inclination toward having this attitude.

The whole thing is tantamount to racism.

And what about those various racial/ethnic student organizations across many universities? Their purpose is to educate and spread their culture to others; so they are, i think, undoubtedly proud of who they are. Would they be considered racist?

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Being proud of ones heritage/culture, I think, has to do with with the environment in which one grew up in. A lot of people I know who feel proud of their heritage grew up in families who came from collectivistic cultures or some other minority group (I live in America), so it seems like they would have some sort of natural inclination toward having this attitude.
And what about those various racial/ethnic student organizations across many universities? Their purpose is to educate and spread their culture to others; so they are, i think, undoubtedly proud of who they are. Would they be considered racist?

Actually I've always found those to be racist. If people started a white male club people would be enraged. It is an exclusive club based on race. That is an exact example of racial discrimination. They discriminate, based on race.

I also never understood why every bloody country needed their own "christian fellowship". Could the Romanian Christian Fellowship not share resources with the Serbian and Carribean Christian fellowships?

 

[maverick_starstrider]

I think what you're actually saying here is 'yes it is possible for a person to take pride in such things'

What? Of course it's possible. It happens all the time. It's just silly IMHO. If you want to feel good about yourself at least pick things that you had anything to do with. Glory by familial proxy really doesn't make any sense.

 

[Sorry!]

Actually I've always found those to be racist. If people started a white male club people would be enraged. It is an exclusive club based on race. That is an exact example of racial discrimination. They discriminate, based on race.

I also never understood why every bloody country needed their own "christian fellowship". Could the Romanian Christian Fellowship not share resources with the Serbian and Carribean Christian fellowships?

Since when did 'race' become synonomous with culture/heritage? And how does that relate to being proud of your culture/heritage?

Anyways back to the OP which maverick seems to have just ignored...

Maverick are you part of any country that's currently fighting a war? Go ahead and tell the soldiers that you're not proud of what they do. It's not about personal glory that's called boasting or being pompous. One is a personal feeling the other is an action to show superiority.

I feel that I am in NO WAY making myself look good for being proud of things that occurred before me. I'm not making myself look better than anyone... this has nothing to do with pride.

 

[leroyjenkens]

And what about those various racial/ethnic student organizations across many universities? Their purpose is to educate and spread their culture to others; so they are, i think, undoubtedly proud of who they are. Would they be considered racist?

Who you are isn't what your race is. If you're proud of yourself, you're proud of who you are personally. Race is irrelevant.

If I have a mustache and I'm proud of who I am, does that mean I'm proud of being a member of the mustache wearers? Who I am is not "mustache wearer #19351395".

Maverick are you part of any country that's currently fighting a war? Go ahead and tell the soldiers that you're not proud of what they do. It's not about personal glory that's called boasting or being pompous. One is a personal feeling the other is an action to show superiority.

Colloquially we've come to accept certain words for the incorrect meaning. Pride is one of them. If you say you're not proud of the soldiers, people will take that as a negative comment about the soldiers. Call it semantics if you want.
I'm not proud of the soldiers for the simple fact that I can't be. I respect their bravery and I'm happy they're doing a job that most people wouldn't do, but that's different from pride.

 

[drankin]

This question came to me last night while I was putting the finishing touches to my grand unified theory that involved only algebra and came to the conclusion that Earth is only 853 years old. I hear the ol 'I'm proud of my culture/heritage' thrown about a lot around where I live, typically by more racist people, and one question has finally come to mind: What does that mean?

I mean really, when I think of the word proud, a few things come to mind. For one, someone being proud of their son or daughter. This seems to make sense because you helped raise your child and how they behave reflects upon how good of a parent you were (at least in one's mind this can be argued, I am not interested in whether or not its true). Another is being proud of your neighborhood (or more commonly heard as "Taking pride in our streets") which to me still makes sense because you have a hand in keeping your neighborhood clean or in helping reduce crime and what not. Of course, there's always being proud of yourself where you take pride in the things you've done and accomplished... no need for an explanation there.

The idea of having pride in your culture and heritage confuses me though. I just don't understand what it means to have pride in people you don't know, most of whom are dead, or cultures which you had no part in creating really. Someone enlighten me, san francisco style. Wait just kidding, enlighten me in a way that's logical.

I'm proud of my Irish heritage. But it is very watered down. I only really have the last name to distinguish it. I'm proud that I have something of a heritage. My son and daughter are 1/4 Alaskan Native. I'm proud of that. And I make it a point to show them that is something to be proud of. As dilluted of a world we have and are going to have, cultures, heritages, languages are dissolving. I know one person, and I work with him, who is 100% of a particular race, Japanese, and I think that is awesome. I'm proud to know him for that fact (as well as being impeccable at his position).

It's a uniqueness that is becoming more and more rare. Something to be proud of.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

It's a uniqueness that is becoming more and more rare. Something to be proud of.

Why would you be proud? Would you be proud of someone with webbed fingers? Is there any logic to being proud of something which someone has no control over let alone that it has absolutely nothing to do with you?

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Can they still be proud of things their family has done? Who said anything about other people giving that person respect? I'm sure people who kill other people sometimes are proud of what they've done. They still get no respect from me. So I have no idea where you're going with this.

You CAN be proud of your family name. No this does not mean you fall back on it, no this doesn't mean you haven't accomplished anything yourself. The OP wasn't about is it OK to have pride in these things it was if it makes sense.
And yeah, if a person is so inclined to be ashamed of things people in their family history have done then they have every right to.

Rights? How does this have anything to do with rights? You sound like I'm suggesting it should be illegal to be proud of ones heritage or some nonsense. I'm just pointing out, yet again, that IMHO it's a silly thing to do. Do it all you want I'll just think you've got the wrong idea.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Since when did 'race' become synonomous with culture/heritage? And how does that relate to being proud of your culture/heritage?

Anyways back to the OP which maverick seems to have just ignored...

Maverick are you part of any country that's currently fighting a war? Go ahead and tell the soldiers that you're not proud of what they do. It's not about personal glory that's called boasting or being pompous. One is a personal feeling the other is an action to show superiority.

I feel that I am in NO WAY making myself look good for being proud of things that occurred before me. I'm not making myself look better than anyone... this has nothing to do with pride.

You try signing up for the "East Asian Christian Alliance" even if you're white but born and raised in East Asia.

I am Canadian and yes we are in Afghanistan and no I wouldn't say I'm "proud" of the soldiers. Like the old mantra goes "I'm not against the soldiers I'm against the war" but they weren't drafted, they signed up to put themselves in mortal danger in a non-defensive war. Some did it to get a decent career later, others for money and I'm sure most because their "heritage"/"culture" told them that it was a good idea to put your life on the line for the whims of politicians. Someone said "Jump" and they decided to say "how high?" I don't suppose I really see what is pride-worthy about that. I see people with those asinine bumper stickers "If you're not behind our soldier get in front of them" which is retarded. This isn't World War II. Afghanistan and Iraq are not powerful nations marching on us. I certainly never asked my government to send people to die so I certainly don't feel any reverence to those who volunteered to do the dying.

That is not to say that the experience of war may not make an individual soldier a very respect worthy person. But no. It absolutely does not make me warm and tingly inside to know that there are bunch of mostly poorly educated, mostly impoverished kids out there giving and taking bullets.