Bending Space: Unraveling the Mystery

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    Bending Mystery Space
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of bending space, particularly in relation to the physical analogy of bending a book and how it relates to the ideas of intrinsic and extrinsic curvature in the context of general relativity. Participants explore the implications of non-Euclidean geometry and its non-intuitive nature.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the concept of bending space, questioning what happens to the "space" when a book is bent.
  • Another participant introduces the distinction between extrinsic curvature, produced by bending a surface in a higher dimension, and intrinsic curvature, which relates to the curvature of spacetime in general relativity without requiring an extra dimension.
  • A further contribution emphasizes the non-intuitive nature of general relativity and its reliance on advanced mathematics, specifically differential geometry, which deals with non-flat geometries.
  • One participant provides a familiar example of Earth's curvature, illustrating how non-flat geometry can lead to unexpected outcomes, such as two people meeting at the North Pole after walking in opposite directions from the South Pole.
  • The initial participant reiterates their confusion about bending space and adds that humans evolved in a world of Euclidean geometry, suggesting that this may contribute to the difficulty in grasping non-Euclidean concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and confusion regarding the concept of bending space, with no consensus reached on the explanation of these ideas. Multiple competing views on the nature of curvature and its implications are present.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations of human intuition regarding non-Euclidean geometry, suggesting that the understanding of such concepts may be hindered by evolutionary factors and the predominance of Euclidean experiences in daily life.

thinkandmull
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As I hold a paper back book and bend it, I do not understand this idea of bending space. If I suppose the book and the air around it are really space, when I bend the book, that part of "space" goes into other parts of "space". Further, there must be space where the bending space once ways. What am I missing?
 
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Google for "intrinsic curvature" and "extrinsic curvature", and search the relativity forum here for those terms.

What you're doing is producing extrinsic curvature by deforming the two-dimensional surface of the book when you bend it through the third dimension. The space-time curvature that produces gravity in general relativity is the other kind - intrinsic curvature - and it doesn't need an extra dimension to bend through.
 
Also be aware that what you're asking about is very, very non-intuitive. General relativity, which is the theory that describes spacetime and spacetime curvature, is based on very high-level mathematics about differential geometry. Differential geometry is about the study of non-flat geometries, like the surface of a saddle or a sphere. Non-flat geometry, also known as non-euclidean geometry, is NOT something people ever work with in school until well into college. Rules that hold in flat geometry (aka euclidean geometry) don't necessarily hold in non-euclidean geometry. For example, in basic geometry classes students learn that all three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. If you study a triangle on a non-flat surface, you will find that this does NOT hold true.

If we extend this idea from a 2d surface to a 3d space then we get a very non-intuitive description of space but one that is perfectly logical in mathematical terms.
 
Just about everyone is familiar with the nonflat geometry of the Earth's curved surface. If two people standing at the south pole start walking in opposite directions, they'll meet face to face at the North pole. That's a curvature effect - if the surface of the Earth were flat they'd never see each other again.
 
thinkandmull said:
As I hold a paper back book and bend it, I do not understand this idea of bending space. If I suppose the book and the air around it are really space, when I bend the book, that part of "space" goes into other parts of "space". Further, there must be space where the bending space once ways. What am I missing?
To add, to what's already been said, don't feel badly about not "getting" this right off. We humans evolved in a world of Euclidean geometry(*) so there was zero survival value in understanding the non-Euclidean geometry of space-time.

* to be very technical, we evolved on a spherical surface (spherical geometry), but we didn't KNOW that for the first 99% of human evolution and so it had no relevance to human evolution
 

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