Bernoulli-pressure differential airfoil

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the principles of fluid dynamics as they relate to Bernoulli's theorem, particularly in the context of airfoil design. Participants explore the relationship between fluid velocity, pressure differentials, and the effects of flow through varying cross-sectional areas, addressing both theoretical and conceptual aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a fluid must move at higher velocity through a narrower cross-section to maintain mass flow rate, suggesting a relationship between velocity and pressure differentials.
  • Others question whether the high velocity of the fluid is a result of a pre-existing pressure differential or if the pressure differential is created as a consequence of the fluid's high velocity.
  • A participant introduces the concept of pressure differentials acting perpendicular to the flow direction in airfoils, raising questions about how these differentials arise in the context of fluid flow.
  • One participant discusses the role of net forces in fluid movement, using the example of a diffuser to illustrate how pressure changes can affect flow direction and velocity.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of pressure gradients in accelerating fluid particles, suggesting that these gradients are necessary for changes in velocity, while also acknowledging the conservation of energy in fluid dynamics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the causality between pressure differentials and fluid velocity, with no consensus reached on whether high velocity leads to pressure differentials or vice versa. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the nature of pressure differentials in relation to airfoil design.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of fluid dynamics, including the effects of friction and external forces, which may influence pressure and velocity relationships. There are also references to specific scenarios like nozzles and diffusers that illustrate these principles, but the assumptions and conditions under which these examples apply are not fully explored.

srchandran
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bernoullis theromen -

1)when a fluid flows through narrower cross section it should move at higher velocity to maintain mass flow rate.

2)for a fluid to move at a higher velocity as in the above statement the pressure difference between the higher cross section and lower cross section should be more. That means the pressure
decreases in the direction of flow


my question is

1)whether the fluid moves with high velocity because of higher pressure differential or

2)whether the higher pressure differential caused the fluid to move at high velocity

3)in the above discussions we are discussing about pressure differences along fluid flow direction but how this effect creates a pressure differential perpendicular to fluid flow direction in the top and
bottom of the airfoil. in the top and bottom of airfoil the fluid flow should have created pressure differential only along fluid flow.
 
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bernoullis theroem -

sorry
rewording my first question

1)when a fluid flows through narrower cross section it should move at higher velocity to maintain mass flow rate.

2)for a fluid to move at a higher velocity as in the above statement the pressure difference between the higher cross section and lower cross section should be more. That means the pressure
decreases in the direction of flow


my question is

1)whether the fluid moves with high velocity and then creates a pressure differentiall or

2)whether the higher pressure differential caused the fluid to move at high velocity

3)in the above discussions we are discussing about pressure differences along fluid flow direction but how this effect creates a pressure differential perpendicular to fluid flow direction in the top and
bottom of the airfoil. in the top and bottom of airfoil the fluid flow should have created pressure differential only along fluid flow.
 

1)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_pressure"
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Fluids, like anything else move because there is a net force on them. Let's look a diffuser. The fluid comes in from the left at high velocity, and through the diffuser, leaves at a much higher pressure, over a much larger area. In the diffuser, there is clearly a net force in the opposite direction of flow. So, why is the fluid not flowing backwards?

The answer is because you're merely looking at one component of the overall system. If this were water coming out of your faucet, then you're forgetting about the high pressure water tanks that feed your house.

Also recall that we have this pesky thing called friction. That will always decrease total pressure along a pipe run.
 
Not sure if this will help, but it's always been a chicken and the egg kind of problem.

Let's look at a nozzle. We know from conservation of mass that if the area is decreasing, the velocity must be increasing for an incompressible flow.

But in order for the velocity of the water particles to accelerate, there must be a force acting on them in the direction of motion. This force acting on them is the pressure gradient across any given particle.

So as the nozzle converges, the pressure must continually be dropping to maintain a pressure gradient on the water particles in order to speed them up.

So I always found it more intuitive to look it as "pressure gradients accelerate flows, and cause the velocity to change". You could however look it as "You have so much energy in the fluid, so as the velocity changes, the pressure must also changes because in a frictionless incompressible flow, their summation is constant."

Hope that helped.
 

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