Best way to learn - use the solution manual often or not?

[jhae2.718]

...or for working outside of school where there is no solution manual?

Life doesn't have a solutions manual?!

 

[lisab]

Life doesn't have a solutions manual?!

Of course not, but you didn't learn language without *lots* of feedback. All of us have sat for hundreds of hours working problems, of course. But without timely feedback you might as well be trying to learn language by talking into a cave.

 

[jhae2.718]

Of course not, but you didn't learn language without *lots* of feedback. All of us have sat for hundreds of hours working problems, of course. But without timely feedback you might as well be trying to learn language by talking into a cave.

My joke was that bad, huh?

 

[lisab]

My joke was that bad, huh?

Lol. I was just using your point as a prop .

 

[Turion]

The purpose of doing the homework problems is for you to learn how to reason through them. If you give up and look at the answer key every time you get stuck, you will never succeed at research, nor at life really, because people will always have to be holding your hand and giving you direction.

I feel the instant feedback loop is much more important than being afraid that you didn't spend enough time trying to toy with a problem. A large part of learning is making mistakes and making the necessary corrections to your understanding as soon as possible.

Lisab says it nicely:

Of course not, but you didn't learn language without *lots* of feedback. All of us have sat for hundreds of hours working problems, of course. But without timely feedback you might as well be trying to learn language by talking into a cave.

You are supposed to get stuck. Especially on things like "systems of PDEs". That's the entire point. You are supposed to get stuck, think harder about the problem, and come to some kind of realization that gets you unstuck. You are supposed to get used to this process, and get better at it. You are especially supposed to learn not to get frustrated when you are stuck, because that inhibits your ability to get unstuck.

For my research, I solve systems of PDEs way harder than anything you're doing in class, and there ain't no answer key. I get stuck for weeks at a time. I try some things, I make a few wrong turns, and I eventually figure things out. (Or not. Some things just go on the back burner for a while, until I get some new insight).

If you get totally stuck on one problem, put it aside and do other problems. Sleep on it. A lot of times, a new realization will come to you when you stop thinking about it and relax (especially if you sleep overnight). If you're still totally stuck, go to your prof's office hours and ask. He can probably guide you through the thinking process in a way that doesn't subvert your ability to learn.

I find it baffling that you advise him to sleep on the problem. What is he supposed to do in the meantime? Twiddle with his thumbs? It's not like he can just skip the question and move onto the next one, because they get progressively harder and build on the previous question. At the graduate level, I understand because the problems become much more difficult and those actually require you to ponder the answer but not at the undergraduate level. You either solve the question in < 30 minutes or you'll never solve it because you're missing a fundamental concept. The questions aren't designed to take you days.

I think the issue is that the PF members are confusing textbook problems with problems from problem sets. Don't get me wrong. Problems from problem sets should definitely not be used with a solutions manual. Those problems are complex and the purpose is to push you to your limit to test your understanding and using a solutions manual defeats the purpose/struggle to get the right answer. However, textbook problems have a different purpose: they're basic and they are there to teach you the fundamentals. You most assuredly should use a solutions manual because it's your first introduction to the material.

Even if we assume that you only use the solutions manual to check your answers, the clarification provided by a solution is huge. Just because you got the right answer doesn't mean that you have the right solution. A solutions manual will let you make sure that you took the right steps to get to the answer and correct any misunderstandings you have.

When I was in school, you found out if you were doing it wrong when your homework was graded. Homework scores were part of your grade, using a solution manual to correct your homework before turning it in was called...CHEATING. Is this no longer the case?

Oh God. I remember that in middle school. It was terrible. The homework was just graded but we weren't taught how to do it correctly. Grading homework always felt wrong: taking away the one chance students are supposed to be able to make mistakes (and learn from them) without being penalized.

AFTER your homework has been graded and you find out you were wrong, that is when you can look at finished solutions to get help in finding out where your mistake was and how to solve correctly.

I'm not sure how it worked for you, but it look 1 to 2 weeks for us to get back anything from the professor/TAs. Just to make sure I understand where you're coming from, you are essentially suggesting that if you had 30 problems and you get stuck at problem 15, you should wait 1 to 2 weeks before being able to continue onto problem 16? Or you can skip problem 15, have a gap in your understanding, and continue to waste time with the rest of the problems because the textbook assumed that you knew something that you didn't know? And what if you get stuck at problem 24 after the homework was handed back? Do you ask them to remark your homework? Do you get a 50% grade on the homework even though you completed it all correctly after you received feedback? Why should you be graded before receiving feedback on fresh material? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[WannabeNewton]

Don't use solutions manuals. Just don't. Take Ben's advice. The above poster is completely mistaken as to the purpose of textbook problems. Plus, graduate level texts often don't even have solutions manuals so getting used to the existence of solutions manuals will only come to bite you in the end.

 

[Turion]

Don't use solutions manuals. Just don't. Take Ben's advice. The above poster is completely mistaken as to the purpose of textbook problems. Plus, graduate level texts often don't even have solutions manuals so getting used to the existence of solutions manuals will only come to bite you in the end.

I guess it also depends on the textbook; there are obvious exceptions such as Calculus Spivak. At that level, you lose more with a manual than what you gain.

Also, make sure you don't actually read the entire solution. Just read the start very slowly, use that as a hint, and then go back to the problem. It is about having the discipline to make the honest effort first before using the manual.

 

[Catria]

Only when one is getting started with a given area of the subject matter should a solutions manual be used. Even if you do use a solutions manual, make sure you make an active reading of the solution.

 

[member 392791]

I'm just saying, someone that uses something like the teacher's solutions manual to correct their homework before turning it in is cheating if it's being graded. If it's something you've been told to use, or it's notes from class, no problem. AFTER your homework has been graded and you find out you were wrong, that is when you can look at finished solutions to get help in finding out where your mistake was and how to solve correctly.

I think in today's world that just doesn't work. If others are doing it, then you are just asking to get a worse grade. It's too competitive for grades to NOT cheat by your standards of cheating. This might be okay if no one else used solutions manuals and it was purely from the students.

Do you consider working in groups as cheating too? Because certainly not everything is your own original work, but is a product of the collaboration with others.

 

[meBigGuy]

Putting it simply --- Using the solutions manual is giving up. You don't want to get in the habit of giving up.

Using the solution manual is like working through the examples in the text. You think you learned it, but when you get to the homework you find out you don't have a clue. I call that the Delusional Understanding Progression Effect.

Edit: oops --- this is an old thread. Oh well ... Someday I'll look first.

 

[serllus reuel]

Many of the strongly anti-solutions people above are (it seems) experienced scientists who mean to give good advice.

However, for those learning the subject for the first time, particularity those self studying, the most important purpose of the solution manual is for CHECKING ANSWERS. It is commonly said "if you are not confident in your answers, then you have not mastered the material." However, if one has such a complete understanding that he is 100% sure of his answer, then why is he even doing problems? A few times I have attempted a problem, and then checked the solution only to see that my answer was off or my reasoning flawed. I then would to proceed to completely redo the problem. Had I never checked the solution, I would have continued to believe that the wrong method was the right one. Of course, the above situation should happen only rarely (otherwise you really do not understand the material).

 

[Evo]

Solutions manuals are not meant for students. This thread was supposed to be closed.