Bin Laden, the truth about his death?

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In summary: As one of the Seal team remarked to Mr Pfarrer: “If we had wanted him dead, we could have killed him at any time.”In summary, the article discusses a new book that claims to provide a more accurate account of the events that occurred the night Osama bin Laden was killed. The author, a former Navy SEAL, disputes the popular narrative and provides new details, such as the use of "Stealth Hawks" and the quickness of the operation. The conversation also touches on the motivations behind the book and the credibility of the author.
  • #1
Evo
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Interesting article about what really happened that night.

Correcting the ‘fairy tale’: A SEAL’s account of how Osama bin Laden really died

The helicopters, called “Stealth Hawks,” are inconspicuous machines concealing cutting-edge technology. They entered the compound as planned, with “Razor 1″ disembarking its team of SEALs on the roof of the compound — not on the ground level. There was no crash landing. That wouldn’t occur until after bin Laden was dead.

Meanwhile, “Razor 2″ took up a hovering position so that its on-board snipers, some of whom had also participated in the sea rescue of Maersk Alabama captain Richard Phillips, had a clear view of anyone fleeing the compound.

The SEALs then dropped down from the roof, immediately penetrated the third floor, and hastily encountered bin Laden in his room. He was not standing still.

“He dived across the king-size bed to get at the AKSU rifle he kept by the headboard,” wrote Pfarrer in his book. It was at that moment, a mere 90 seconds after the SEALs first set foot on the roof, that two American bullets shattered bin Laden’s chest and head, killing a man who sought violence to the very end.
continued...

I suggest reading the entire article as there is a lot of information.

http://news.yahoo.com/correcting-fairy-tale-seal-account-osama-bin-laden-054233289.html
 
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  • #3
phinds said:
I have no idea whether the guy's right or wrong, but is there really any evidence that he's not just trying to sell books?

Honestly it sounds like patriotic dribble and a guy looking to cash in on books to me too.
 
  • #4
pergradus said:
Honestly it sounds like patriotic dribble and a guy looking to cash in on books to me too.
If that's the case, then I'm sure someone will call him on it.
 
  • #5
from the article said:
But Obama’s announcement, he said, “rendered moot all of the intelligence that was gathered from the nexus of al-Qaida. The computer drives, the hard drives, the videocasettes, the CDs, the thumb drives, everything. Before that could even be looked through, the political decision was made to take credit for the operation.”

And in the days that followed, as politicians sought to thrust their identities into the details of the bin Laden kill, the tale began to grow out of control, said Pfarrer.

This was obvious from day one when various senators started taking claim - it was pretty sad from all sides.


Also, how is this 'patriotic dribble' when he's trying to make the assassination less daring that originally thought? The author is trying to debunk the 'glory' of the mission and make it more real, more cold. Personally - I don't think it's patriotic nor unpatriotic to tell the story, especially if it's accurate.
 
  • #6
mege said:
This was obvious from day one when various senators started taking claim - it was pretty sad from all sides.Also, how is this 'patriotic dribble' when he's trying to make the assassination less daring that originally thought? The author is trying to debunk the 'glory' of the mission and make it more real, more cold. Personally - I don't think it's patriotic nor unpatriotic to tell the story, especially if it's accurate.

Perhaps. Though it's hard to be cold - and accurate - while writing such comments as "...a man who sought violence to the very end..."

Navy Seals burst into the room with guns leveled, and the author makes it out like Bin Laden's the one "seeking violence". That's spin.
 
  • #7
The Seals will never tell nitty-gritty details about their job to anyone - not to this author, not to their wives - no one. Every time I read something like this, I think it's safe to assume it's all just crap.
 
  • #8
lisab said:
The Seals will never tell nitty-gritty details about their job to anyone - not to this author, not to their wives - no one. Every time I read something like this, I think it's safe to assume it's all just crap.

i don't know. I'm suspicious of the book, but there is also a bit of a stink from the helicopter with seals on it that got shot down after the bin laden raid. if these guys think they're being set up, then they might not keep quiet.
 
  • #9
There are only a few people on this planet who know what happened that night in Abbottābad, Pakistan. The rest of us will NEVER KNOW. some folks speculate, guess, and outright concoct fantasy adventures. The books, etc. are, in liasab's words, "all just crap"
 
  • #10
lisab said:
The Seals will never tell nitty-gritty details about their job to anyone - not to this author, not to their wives - no one. Every time I read something like this, I think it's safe to assume it's all just crap.

But they write reports, right? They're debriefed.Well, that being said, you're right. If hockey stars get scripts to read to the public I can assume Navy Seals do too.
 
  • #11
DaveC426913 said:
If hockey stars get scripts to read to the public I can assume Navy Seals do too.

I have no idea about Navy Seals, but from my experience of engineering projects for the US military, you would need to get security clearance to put up a slide that gave away a state secret like "force = mass x acceleration".
 
  • #12
lisab said:
The Seals will never tell nitty-gritty details about their job to anyone - not to this author, not to their wives - no one. Every time I read something like this, I think it's safe to assume it's all just crap.

Lisa,

This is http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/bitter-seals-tell-of-killing-bert-laden/story-fn8ljzlv-1226186934623" , that is dated one day before Evo's, Australian News, Sunday, November 6th.

I find it interesting it was reported in the Australian news to begin with. To me, that fact adds credibility. According to the article, the seal's were upset that:
The Seals have spoken out because they were angered at the version given by politicians, which they see as portraying them as cold-blooded murderers on a “kill mission”. They were also shocked that President Barack Obama announced bin Laden's death on television the same evening, rendering useless much of the intelligence they had seized.

Chuck Pfarrer, a former commander of Seal Team 6, which conducted the operation, has interviewed many of those who took part for a book, Seal Target Geronimo, to be published in the US this week.

The Seals' own accounts differ from the White House version, which gave the impression that bin Laden was killed at the end of the operation rather than in its opening seconds. Pfarrer insists bin Laden would have been captured had he surrendered.
Free trial

“There isn't a politician in the world who could resist trying to take credit for getting bin Laden but it devalued the 'intel' and gave time for every other al-Qa'ida leader to scurry to another bolthole,” said Pfarrer. “The men who did this and their valorous act deserve better. It's a pretty shabby way to treat these guys

and

“They don't understand our terminology, so when someone said the 'insertion helicopter' has crashed, they assumed it meant on entry,” said Pfarrer.

What infuriated the Seals, according to Pfarrer, was the description of the raid as a kill mission. “I've been a Seal for 30 years and I never heard the words 'kill mission',” he said. “It's a Beltway (Washington insider's) fantasy word. If it was a kill mission you don't need Seal Team 6; you need a box of hand grenades.”

Rhody...
 
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  • #13
AlephZero said:
I have no idea about Navy Seals, but from my experience of engineering projects for the US military, you would need to get security clearance to put up a slide that gave away a state secret like "force = mass x acceleration".
:smile:

True, bit this is different. It is an event the world has been following. They are obliged to give an account. The issue is how accurate.
 
  • #14
Does this help?

yahoo said:
But Pfarrer gets a multitude of facts wrong in describing events that are part of the public record.

http://news.yahoo.com/spec-ops-command-seal-raid-book-lie-090244352.html"
 
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  • #15
Jimmy Snyder said:
Does this help?

http://news.yahoo.com/spec-ops-command-seal-raid-book-lie-090244352.html"

Thanks Jimmy,
Special operations leaders have stepped forward to say Pfarrer is at best misinformed and at worst a profiteering self-promoter.

"The reaction is stunned, chagrined, disappointment," said retired Navy SEAL Rear Adm. George Worthington.

Pfarrer defended the book as a patriotic way to laud the "heroes of the bin Laden mission." He said the money he earns will barely cover his medical bills for a long and losing battle with colon cancer. His ruddy complexion and expansive girth bely an illness the personable Pfarrer says has now spread to his lungs.

Sad to see he has such a dismal future, but at the same time, his claims are not close enough to warrant an investigation into whether he spoke with Seal Team Six members who performed the mission, and are forbidden to talk about it with outsiders.

That leaves us with, "we will never know for certain the real sequence of events".

Just as well then, Bin Laden is no longer with us. I can live with that.

Rhody...
 
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  • #16
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19409426

A first-hand account of the May 2011 raid by US forces that killed Osama Bin Laden contradicts the official story, the Associated Press claims.

Whatever the truth maybe but I am not in the favor of seeing this book in public. It might have already caused more than enough damage:
According to AP, the book also asserts that one Seal sat on Bin Laden's chest in a cramped helicopter as his body was flown out to sea. This again apparently contradicts official US claims that his body was treated with dignity ahead of his burial.
 
  • #17
Is anyone else suspicious that this is coming out during election season? Smells like Swift Boating to me.
 
  • #18
Angry Citizen said:
Is anyone else suspicious that this is coming out during election season? Smells like Swift Boating to me.

Here are a few excerpts from the Wiki page on “Swiftboating”:
“The word swiftboating is an American neologism used pejoratively to describe an unfair or untrue political attack. ... the term "swiftboating" as a synonym for "the nastiest of campaign smears",[6] "a slimy political attack",[14] and, for many, "ugly, unprincipled slander."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiftboating

Sorry, Angry Citizen, but I cannot read your mind to get your meaning. With the above definition in mind, will you please explain how is the publication of this book is unfair, untrue “swiftboating”? Who is performing a political attack against whom? What part of this story is "ugly, unprincipled slander"? Thank you.

Cheers,
Bobbywhy
 
  • #19
Pentagon may take legal action against SEAL author
By ROBERT BURNS, AP National Security Writer–21 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Pentagon's top lawyer has informed the former Navy SEAL who wrote a forthcoming book describing details of the raid that killed Osama bin Laden that he violated agreements to not divulge military secrets and that as a result the Pentagon is considering taking legal action against him.
The general counsel of the Defense Department, Jeh Johnson, wrote in a letter transmitted Thursday to the author that he had signed two nondisclosure agreements with the Navy in 2007 that obliged him to "never divulge" classified information.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jjpj0kj7_0LZDkY27fZ7-McGi6IA?docId=10be0942343b4e36abe8eb027c95a36a
 
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  • #20
Bobbywhy said:
Here are a few excerpts from the Wiki page on “Swiftboating”:
“The word swiftboating is an American neologism used pejoratively to describe an unfair or untrue political attack. ... the term "swiftboating" as a synonym for "the nastiest of campaign smears",[6] "a slimy political attack",[14] and, for many, "ugly, unprincipled slander."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiftboating

Sorry, Angry Citizen, but I cannot read your mind to get your meaning. With the above definition in mind, will you please explain how is the publication of this book is unfair, untrue “swiftboating”? Who is performing a political attack against whom? What part of this story is "ugly, unprincipled slander"? Thank you.

Cheers,
Bobbywhy

Do you not think perhaps the book is full of lies intended to bring about the downfall of the Obama presidency? That is what I meant - and the obvious culprits would be the Republican Party.

I don't have any proof, really, but the timing does seem suspicious.
 
  • #21
I can't imagine what the book might have in it that would reflect poorly on Obama. This is a huge win for him and the only way to dampen that (but not spin it into a loss) would be with evidence of indecisiveness. But even that would be a tough sell.

That's just idle speculation you're doing.
 
  • #22
Angry Citizen said:
Do you not think perhaps the book is full of lies intended to bring about the downfall of the Obama presidency? That is what I meant - and the obvious culprits would be the Republican Party.

I don't have any proof, really, but the timing does seem suspicious.
This book might be politically motivated but it's just plain stupid to release sensitive information particularly when NATO is continuously seeing green-on-blue incidents [1] while time is running out.
 

1. Who killed Bin Laden and how?

Bin Laden was killed by a team of United States Navy SEALs in a covert operation authorized by President Barack Obama. The SEALs were able to track down Bin Laden’s location through intelligence gathering and killed him in a raid on his compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan on May 2, 2011.

2. Was Bin Laden really responsible for the 9/11 attacks?

There is overwhelming evidence that Bin Laden was the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks. He publicly claimed responsibility for the attacks in multiple videos and statements, and his involvement was confirmed by intelligence agencies and investigations. Additionally, several of his associates and co-conspirators have been convicted for their roles in the attacks.

3. Why was Bin Laden buried at sea?

According to Islamic tradition, a body should be buried within 24 hours of death. Since Bin Laden’s death was not on land and there was concern that a burial on land could become a shrine for his followers, the decision was made to bury him at sea in accordance with Islamic customs. This was also done to prevent any potential burial site from becoming a place of pilgrimage for extremists.

4. Was there any evidence of Bin Laden’s death?

Photos and videos of Bin Laden’s body were taken by the SEALs during the raid, but the decision was made not to release them to the public. Some government officials who were briefed on the photos have described them as graphic and potentially inflammatory. DNA testing was also conducted on Bin Laden’s body to confirm his identity.

5. Is there any conspiracy surrounding Bin Laden’s death?

There have been some conspiracy theories surrounding Bin Laden’s death, such as claims that he was already dead before the raid or that the U.S. government staged his death for political gain. However, there is no evidence to support these claims and they have been widely debunked by experts and officials involved in the operation.

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