Binomial distribution - killing cells with x-rays

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on modeling tumor cell damage from X-ray radiation using the binomial distribution. The original poster, Wendy, proposes that the probability of a cell being hit by radiation can be modeled similarly to rolling a die with 1000 sides, where each side represents a cell. Wendy seeks to determine the number of photons required to achieve a specific outcome where 46% of cells are hit 0 or 1 time. Participants suggest that while the binomial distribution may serve as an approximation, alternative models, such as a "millenomial distribution" or continuous random fields, may provide more accurate representations of the complex interactions involved.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of binomial distribution and its applications in probability theory.
  • Familiarity with Monte Carlo modeling techniques for simulating complex systems.
  • Knowledge of radiation physics and its effects on biological cells.
  • Basic concepts of statistical modeling and data visualization techniques.
NEXT STEPS
  • Research advanced statistical models for discrete random variables, such as the "millenomial distribution."
  • Explore Monte Carlo simulation techniques for modeling tumor growth and radiation treatment.
  • Investigate the use of continuous random fields in biological modeling.
  • Learn about the application of quantum wavefunctions in modeling cellular interactions with radiation.
USEFUL FOR

This discussion is beneficial for mathematicians, physicists, and researchers involved in cancer treatment modeling, particularly those interested in statistical approaches to radiation therapy and tumor growth dynamics.

Does the question make sense, and are there any other medical physicists out there?

  • It makes sense

    Votes: 2 100.0%
  • I don't understand the problem

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, I'm a medical Physicist

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • no, I'm not

    Votes: 1 50.0%

  • Total voters
    2
  • Poll closed .
wendy-medicalphysics
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Dear Fellow mathematicians and Physicists,I am doing some MC modelling on tumour growth and radiotherapy treatment modelling and would like to know:

Who out there would agree (or suggest alternatives) to the theroy that the chance of a cell being damaged/hit with radiation (and therefore perhaps dying depending on other parameters) may be described by the bionomial distribution?

Background:
1. Let's say that we have 1000 cells, and k photons will be fired at them
2. Let's also say that a cell will dye if hit 2 or more times (simplistic for now!)
3. I need the number of cells that are hit only 0 or 1 times to be 46% of the total

Can I use the bionomial distribution to work out how may photons that would take (integrating to find the area under the curve to obtain the number of phtotons necessary to achieve point 2.?)

I believe we can think about it as a dice with 1000 number sides.
If we roll the dice k times and take the histogram of the number of times each side came up, then the system is the same as the cell/photon set up...WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Thanks, and write back if you don't understand what I am trying to say

Wendy:rolleyes:
 
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Assuming that all photons, with certainty, are absorbed by one of the cells, the above approach seems to me like a reasonable approximation, given the difficulty of incorporating knowledge of the cellular geometry and the radiation source into a model.

I wouldn't call the result a binomial distribution though - perhaps a millenomial distribution ?
 
wendy-medicalphysics said:
I believe we can think about it as a dice with 1000 number sides.
If we roll the dice k times and take the histogram of the number of times each side came up, then the system is the same as the cell/photon set up...WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Thanks, and write back if you don't understand what I am trying to say

Wendy:rolleyes:

That would be interesting. And you look at P(X1>=2, X2>=2, X3...)? A very simple and elegant model but I have a feeling it's been superceded. I would look at graphs, random fields, anything with that sort of mapped network type of thingie. Haven't really looked at that kind of stuff in a while so I probably can't help you yet (and I have this ***** of an essay to write.) I suspect what you're looking for is a discrete array of continuous arrays of random numbers. Thus you could model with continuity the cell surface and then model discretely n numbers of cells.
 
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Are we supposed to use a quantum wavefunction for this?
 
If there are an infinite number of natural numbers, and an infinite number of fractions in between any two natural numbers, and an infinite number of fractions in between any two of those fractions, and an infinite number of fractions in between any two of those fractions, and an infinite number of fractions in between any two of those fractions, and... then that must mean that there are not only infinite infinities, but an infinite number of those infinities. and an infinite number of those...

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