Black holes and atomic particles

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties and behaviors of black holes in relation to atomic particles, particularly protons, neutrons, and electrons. Participants explore concepts such as compression of particles, the strong force, gravitational effects, and the implications of matter-energy conversion within black holes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether protons and neutrons can be compressed and why individual neutrons do not behave like mini-black holes.
  • There is a discussion about the gravitational pull within a black hole versus the strong force acting on protons and neutrons.
  • Participants inquire about the fate of electrons in a black hole and whether they can form neutrons upon collision with protons.
  • Questions are raised regarding the gravitational effects of matter converted into energy and whether this conversion affects the stability of a black hole.
  • Some argue that energy does not create gravity, while others suggest that energy morphs the geometry of spacetime similarly to mass.
  • There are inquiries about the limits of spin for matter within a black hole and the potential for explosive outcomes under certain conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views on the relationship between mass, energy, and gravity, as well as the effects of strong force within black holes. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus on several key points.

Contextual Notes

Some claims depend on definitions of energy and mass, and there are unresolved questions regarding the nature of gravitational fields associated with energy and electromagnetic fields.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring theoretical physics, particularly in the areas of black hole physics, particle physics, and the interplay between mass and energy.

rcgldr
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Can a proton or netron be compressed?

Why don't individual neutrons behave like mini-black holes?

What about the nucleus of an moderate weight atom; how much empty space is there in the nucleus of an atom?

A lot of articles refer to the gravitational pull within a black hole, but what about the strong force acting on the protons and neutrons within a black hole?

What happens to the electrons in a black hole?

Does matter converted into energy produce the same amount of gravity?

Does matter converted into energy produce the same amount of strong force? If not, and the strong force is a key factor in keeping a black hole intact, will the conversion to energy cause the black hole to dissapate?

Is there a limit as to how fast the matter within a black hole can spin? Is there a limit as to how much centrifugal reaction force is generated by this spin? Could a black hole explode if the spin produced near light speeds with very a small radius of the matter within it?
 
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Jeff Reid said:
Can a proton or netron be compressed?

Why don't individual neutrons behave like mini-black holes?
Just because you can't squeeze it doesn't make it a black hole. And you can squeeze a proton or neutron.

What happens to the electrons in a black hole?
Well they get sucked in!

Does matter converted into energy produce the same amount of gravity?
I don't remember the last time any sort of "energy" creates gravity. Energy is a sort of a bookkeeping device. But I did hear about geons one time, something in which photons are held together by the gravitational field of their own field energy... maybe somebody can elaborate on that.

Is ethere a limit as to how fast the matter within a black hole can spin?
Is there a limit to as how fast an apple can spin? Why can't a massive object achieve c?

Is there a limit as to how much centrifugal reaction force is generated by this spin? Could a black hole explode if the spin produced near light speeds with very a small radius of the matter within it?
Yes! (same reason as above) The limit is under the gravitational strength of the black hole I think.
 
Last edited:
A proton and electron can be compressed to form a neutron. (At least I think, I won't be supprised if I'm wrong).

Gravity comes along with mass, since energy doesn't have mass it doesn't have gravity.
 
I'll rephrase:

Jeff Reid said:
What happens to the electrons in a black hole?
If they collide with protons, do they form netrons, or is the impact energy great enough that a nucler reaction and conversion of matter into energy occur?

strong force
No response on this one. Wouldn't the strong force hold the netrons and protons in a black hole with even more force than gravity. Does the strong force affect light?

Does matter converted into energy produce the same amount of gravity?
If it doesn't and assuming there's an appreciable amount of conversion of matter within a black hole, does the black hole self destruct?
 
I have no idea, and I'm thinking these four posts are a mess looking back at them today. We need an expert in here.
 
This thread should be in the "Special and general relativity" section.

Jeff Reid said:
Does matter converted into energy produce the same amount of gravity?

Yes. Since mass is just a form of energy, energy morphs the geometry of spacetime just as mass does.

The gravitational field of a black hole gets stronger whenever energy/mass is caught inside its event horizon.
 
kvantti said:
energy morphs the geometry of spacetime just as mass does.
So does every electromagnetic field have its own gravitational field?
 

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