Blackholes/wormholes/tachyons and other maybe's

[Pengwuino]

Hey guys, i was wondering something. How do people think up stuff that we, at the moment, arent sure exist?

For example, whoever proposed black holes. How did they think of it? Was it through an equation and what about this equation made the person think up the idea of a black hole? If not through an equation, how was it figured out?

Same for wormholes, how were they proposed? Through an equation or combonation of theories or what?

Again, same for the idea of tachyons. Was there an equation they were derived from or combonation of theories or what.

Forgive me if the answer to these questions are too complex for an online post. Maybe a website or book recommendation is in order? I just really would like to know how people think up these kinds of things without us actually observing them (especially tachyons as something that goes >c doesn't sound like something that can be derived from an equation or two).

 

[neurocomp2003]

i doubt if most of it comes from math...it prolly comes from thinking of the beyond(or what's needed for the time) or scifi which ever you prefer to classify...the math models come later...its like that invisible suit that they tried to create in korea though i think they managed it in japan...and the baby translator that they are trying to market for 06..

[]white holes(einstein-?rosen? bridge)...a short passage in time over large distances..correct me if I'm wrong but the term was coined by wheeler or thorne or someone of their nature..."black"hole opposite ...then they tried to model a stable system for such an event.which was the einstein-?rosen? bridge...and current theory says it can't be stable. though the math could be wrong

[] tachyons...well people say the limit is C so someone just said what can >c.

[] soul...an un explained event through the unstudied brain.

[] timetravel...people wanting to go back in time to fix things.

[] quantum...wanting to figure out the fundamental nature

[] multiverse...same thing as timetravel...though i think this is more plausible.

[] AI...seeking intelligence beyond ours..


of course you do ahve experiments taht get lucky in finding something that they weren't looking for like the belllabs cosmobkgd radiation was it OR neutrino...my memory is horrible

 

[Pengwuino]

No no i don't mean stuff like that. I mean real things people study. I don't think its a serious inquiry of science to study and look for the soul.

For example, the tachyon. There had to be something that said it might exist. I don't think its plausable that in a scientific environment, someone could just make up something and give it a name and be taken somewhat seriously. With strings, someone could have just said "hey there's these little string looken things that are so small its hard to imagine. I have no proof they exist and no reason to believe htey do but please take me seriously." Instead, it was derived mathematically if memory serves correctly.

What I am wondering about is the reasoning for black holes and wormholes and tachyons. You've given me a reason to believe black holes exist, but how bout the other 2? What were the theories that brought people to believe those last 2 exist.

 

[Hurkyl]

I think with tachyons, it's that there's nothing really saying they can't exist: the law of causality is something put into theory by hand (I think).

(Incidentally, particles that travel subluminally are called "tardyons")

So, to experimentally test the law of causality, you have to know what to look for in a counterexample, right? Might as well name it!

 

[Pengwuino]

haha wow, that's something i wouldn't have expected out of science. But doesn't SR say that nothing can go beyond the speed of light... meaning they can't exist?

 

[Hurkyl]

My history could easily be off -- don't take me as an authority on it.


SR doesn't say that tachyons don't exist: it says that there's a sharp distinction between tachyons and tardyons. Particles of one type cannot turn into the other type. (Kinematically, at least... I suppose there's nothing wrong with a tardyon "decomposing" into two tachyons, and other similar things)

 

[Pengwuino]

Oh jesus, I am so lost...

I wish i weren't in a half-coma state all the time so i can actually open up a book :D I try to read articls and immediatly get bored and play video games. I think someone needs ot invent a drug that stops the brain from wanting grand theft auto.

 

[neurocomp2003]

its called RITALIN and i was serious about how they start...it comes a lot from scifi and thinking of the beyond...then when someone of the intellectual background gets interested they try to model it...thats why you see people switch fields(or applying knowledge to other fields) after their msc/phd.

 

[fileen]

I think youve got a good question. like who thought up antimatter, they used it on star treck way before we actually encountered it. they (who is they anyways?) guessed its existence and assumed it was out there some where, then suddenly we are colliding particles and creating it. the whole concept seems out there to me. antimatter annialated when it comes in contact with matter, so how can there be antimatter in the universe. everything is matter or antimatter. its not like it can escape coming in contact with each other. very confusing. maybe this is a good topic for another thread, but again, I am curious now, who thinks of these things?