Building a muon Cherenkov detector

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the construction and feasibility of a muon Cherenkov detector, focusing on the components being used, potential methodologies, and the challenges associated with detecting muons versus other particles. Participants explore both theoretical and practical aspects of the project, including signal detection and experimental design.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • The original poster (OP) discusses using an R928 Hamamatsu PMT and a paint can as a detector setup, aiming to measure Cherenkov radiation in different mediums.
  • Some participants question the efficiency of the proposed method for detecting muons, suggesting alternative methods like a cloud chamber for broader detection capabilities.
  • Concerns are raised about the signal yield from muons compared to the dark current of the PMT, with some participants emphasizing the need for preliminary estimates before proceeding.
  • There is a debate about the clarity of the OP's purpose in building the detector, with some participants expressing skepticism about the project's feasibility and goals.
  • Several participants assert that the proposed setup may not work effectively due to high noise levels compared to the expected signal from muons.
  • Some participants express frustration that the OP has already purchased components without sufficient planning or consultation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the feasibility and efficiency of the proposed muon detection method. While some express skepticism about the project's potential for success, others defend the OP's right to experiment, albeit with caution regarding expectations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the OP's approach, including the need for a clearer purpose, the potential for high noise levels, and the importance of preliminary calculations to assess the plausibility of detecting muons.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to experimental physicists, hobbyists in particle detection, and those exploring Cherenkov radiation and its applications in muon detection.

a_cool_username
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TL;DR
In the boredom of everything being shut down, I have begun ordering materials to build a cosmic ray muon detector that uses Cherenkov radiation. I am new to this forum and thought my project would make a good thread so I will update this as I progress.
So far I have an R928 Hamamatsu pmt from ebay, that I believe will be good since it has UV glass, and the majority of the photons should be in the UV range. I also have an old Brandenburg pmt HV power supply but need a BNC connector to use it. I already have a good rigol oscilloscope. Soon I will be reading how to properly set up my electronics for a pmt and will take some baseline measurements. I am waiting on a one gallon paint can which will be the container, and a BNC connector for the power supply. The plan is to get it all working and tested with a low current in an LED then, take a measurement in the empty can with just air over an ample time period then compare with distilled water in the can. The interior of the paint can will be white to increase the chance of detecting photons. Any suggestions or known pitfalls to avoid would be appreciated.
 
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Isn't this a highly inefficient way to detect muons? Even if you have an event, how would you know that it was caused by a muon?

why can't you just build a cloud chamber and be able to detect muons and more?

Zz.
 
Have you estimated your signal yield? And compared it to your dark current?
 
a_cool_username said:
ZapperZ-Yes I'm sure this an inefficient way to detect muons, but then I wouldn't have the added benefit of surpassing the speed of light in water to produce Cherenkov radiation. I suppose if I get it working I could get some readings with shielding and maybe take it to a mountain for a day and see if I can compare to theory and other's results.

Then I don't understand why you are doing this. Are you trying to detect muons, or just simply the satisfaction of detecting something moving faster than light in a medium?

I'm an experimentalist. When you set out to do something, there is usually a very clear purpose and reason. I don't see it here.

And I still question how you'd know if you're detecting muons and not other effects as well. Moving it to "a mountain" doesn't cut it because you're changing your environment, not just altitude. There are many other things that can cause Cerenkov radiation in water.

BTW, you only have ONE pmt? What kind of coverage do you think you'd get out of that detector? This is before you consider the quantum efficiency of that pmt in the first place. This adds to why I said that this is a highly inefficient way to detect muons. A cloud chamber not only gets you that, but you can also detect a whole lot more.

The reason and goal on why you are doing this is very vague and uncertain.

Zz.
 
Before you order anything you should make a rough estimate how plausible this is. Find the PMT hit rate without any signal. Estimate your signal yield from muons. If the latter is orders of magnitude lower, you'll never "detect" muons. You'll have some signals that are from muons, but you can't ever tell that they exist at all because you are drowned by noise.
 
a_cool_username said:
I can't haphazardly try to do my own experiments?

You can do whatever you want. But there is no guarantee it will work. In this case, it will not.
 
Do what you want. But it won't ever work.
 
It seems that the OP has deleted a bunch of his posts.

mfb said:
Before you order anything you should make a rough estimate how plausible this is

He says he's already bought the PMT. I agree, he should have asked first, and we could have helped him design something that might work. But given that at best he's looking at 300 noise pulses per signal, there's no way he can ever make this work.
 
Thread is locked for Moderation...

Thread will stay locked. The OP has realized that what he wanted to do won't work. Thanks everybody for trying to help him.
 
Last edited:

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