Calculate Minimal Speed to Throw Stone from Moon to Earth

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The problem involves calculating the minimal speed required to throw a stone from the Moon to reach Earth, considering gravitational forces and potential energy changes. It references the masses and radii of the Earth and Moon, as well as gravitational constants.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of conservation of energy principles, specifically the relationship between kinetic energy and gravitational potential energy. There are attempts to rearrange equations to clarify the relationship between variables. Questions arise regarding the accuracy of distance estimations and the resulting calculations.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with each other's calculations and reasoning, noting discrepancies in results. Some guidance has been offered regarding the interpretation of gravitational potential energy changes, and there is a recognition of the need to verify assumptions about distances involved.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of potential errors in calculations related to the distances used in the equations, as well as a reference to a textbook for confirmation of the equilibrium point distance. Participants are also considering the implications of ignoring the stone's mass in their calculations.

Karol
Messages
1,380
Reaction score
22

Homework Statement


At which minimal speed must a stone be thrown from the moon in order to reach earth.
R is the Earth's radius and r the moon's.
M is the Earth's mass and m the moon's.
I ignore the stone's mass, it cancels

Homework Equations


$$U=-\frac{GMm}{r}$$
G=6.7E-11
R=6.4E6 [m]
r=1.7E6 [m]
M=6E24 [kg]
m=M/81

The Attempt at a Solution


There is point A at a distance 54R that the forces equal. to reach there:
$$-\frac{GM}{81r}-\frac{GM}{60R-1.7E6}+\frac{V^2}{2}=-\frac{GM}{81\cdot 6R}-\frac{GM}{54R}$$
$$\frac{V^2}{2}=GM\left(-\frac{1}{81\cdot 6R}-\frac{1}{54R}+\frac{1}{81r}+\frac{1}{60R-1.7E6}\right)$$
$$V^2=2\cdot 6.7E-11 \cdot 6E24 \left( \frac{-54-81\cdot 6}{81\cdot 6\cdot 54\cdot 6.4E6}+\frac{1}{81\cdot 1.7E6}+\frac{1}{60\cdot6.4E24-1.7E6}\right)$$
$$V=1804$$
It should be V=2.26 [km/sec]
 

Attachments

  • Snap1.jpg
    Snap1.jpg
    4.8 KB · Views: 473
Physics news on Phys.org
You've already correctly found the (approximate) distance that it needs to travel in order to fall towards Earth instead of towards the moon.

From conservation of energy:
ΔKE = ΔGPE
(KE = Kinetic Energy ... GPE = Gravitational Potential Energy)ΔGPE will be the change between the moon's surface and the point 6R from the center of the moon

ΔKE will be (the negative of) the entire KE of the object (because we want it to run out of speed when it gets to that point, because the problem asked for the minimum speed)

So, essentially the problem comes down to finding the change in Gravitational Potential Energy.So what would you say the change in GPE would be?
 
Last edited:
I'll try to discern what your math says is the ΔGPE

Karol said:

The Attempt at a Solution


$$-\frac{GM}{81r}-\frac{GM}{60R-1.7E6}+\frac{V^2}{2}=-\frac{GM}{81\cdot 6R}-\frac{GM}{54R}$$

I'll rearrange your equation to get:
$$(\frac{GM}{54R}-\frac{GM}{60R-1.7E6})+(\frac{GM}{81\cdot6R}-\frac{GM}{81r})=-\frac{V^2}{2}$$

On the left side we have ΔGPE and on the right side we have ΔKE
(except for the common factor of the mass of the object, which we will ignore)

Seems right to me.When I calculate it, though, my answer is 2.02 km/s

I'm not sure why it's a little different than the given answer of 2.26 km/s(I calculated it before my first reply and got 2.31 km/s ... I'm not sure what I did inconsistently)
Perhaps the discrepensy is from the estimation of the distance (54R and 6R) where the gravity is equal.Edit:
P.S. I think there's a E24 where there should be an E6 in your final equation (the last term)
 
Last edited:
You are right about the last term:
$$V^2=2\cdot 6.7E-11 \cdot 6E24 \left( \frac{-54-81\cdot 6}{81\cdot 6\cdot 54\cdot 6.4E6}+\frac{1}{81\cdot 1.7E6}+\frac{1}{60\cdot6.4E6-1.7E6}\right)$$
This gives V=2315 which is closer.
The distance to the equilibrium point A is 54R according to the book
 
Karol said:
The distance to the equilibrium point A is 54R according to the book

Well then that's strange. I'm not sure what else could account for the error.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 73 ·
3
Replies
73
Views
6K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K