Calculate the volume of the set M

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the volume of the set $M=\{(x,y,z)\in \mathbb{R}^3 : x^2+y^2-z^2\leq 1, \ 0 \leq z\leq 3\}$. Participants explore different coordinate systems, particularly cylindrical coordinates, and discuss the appropriate boundaries for integration. The conversation includes attempts to visualize the set and the challenges faced in plotting it accurately.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest using cylindrical coordinates for the volume calculation, proposing boundaries of $0 \leq r\leq \sqrt{1+z^2}$, $0\leq z\leq 3$, and $0\leq \theta\leq 2\pi$.
  • There is a discussion about whether $\theta$ can go all the way around, with some participants indicating that the absence of restrictions allows for this.
  • One participant mentions the need for an infinitesimal volume element in cylindrical coordinates, stating it is $r\, d\theta \, dr\, dz$.
  • Participants express uncertainty about how to accurately plot the set $M$, questioning whether to use the equation $x^2+y^2-z^2=1$ or the inequality $x^2+y^2-z^2\leq 1$ for visualization.
  • There are mentions of using software like Geogebra and Wolfram to create visual representations, with some participants sharing their experiences and difficulties in doing so.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the use of cylindrical coordinates and the proposed boundaries, but there is uncertainty regarding the visualization of the set and the appropriate equations to use for plotting. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach for visualization and the implications of using the inequality versus the equality in the plotting process.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the boundaries and conditions for integration, as well as the implications of the inequality in the context of plotting the set. There is also a lack of consensus on the best software or method for visualizing the set.

mathmari
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Hey! :giggle:

We have the set $M=\{(x,y,z)\in \mathbb{R}^3 : x^2+y^2-z^2\leq 1, \ 0 \leq z\leq 3\}$. Draw $M$ and calculate the volume of $M$. I have done the following :

\begin{equation*}\int_M\, dV=\int\int\int\, dx\, dy\, dy\end{equation*} Which are the boundaries of the integrals? Do we have to use spherical coordinates?

Or do we set $x=r\cos\theta$ and $y=r\sin\theta$ and $z$ remains $z$ with $0\leq z\leq 3$ ?
We have that $x^2+y^2-z^2\leq \Rightarrow r^2-z^2\leq 1 \Rightarrow r^2\leq 1+z^2 \Rightarrow -\sqrt{1+z^2}\leq r\leq \sqrt{1+z^2}$ and since $r$ is the radius and so it must be positive we get $0 \leq r\leq \sqrt{1+z^2}$, right? But what about $\theta$ ?

Or is there an other way to calculate that?

:unsure:
 
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Hey mathmari!

It's called cilindrical coordinates.
$\theta$ goes all the way around and is between 0 and $2\pi$. 🤔
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
It's called cilindrical coordinates.
$\theta$ goes all the way around and is between 0 and $2\pi$. 🤔

So the boundaries are $0 \leq r\leq \sqrt{1+z^2}$, $0\leq z\leq 3$ and $0\leq \theta\leq 2\pi$, right?

So do we have so far the following?
\begin{align*}\int_M\, dV=\int_0^3\int_0^{\sqrt{1+z^2}}\int_0^{2\pi}\, d\theta \, dr\, dz=\int_0^3\int_0^{\sqrt{1+z^2}}\left [\theta\right ]_0^{2\pi} \, dr\, dz=\int_0^3\int_0^{\sqrt{1+z^2}}2\pi \, dr\, dz=\int_0^32\pi \left [r\right ]_0^{\sqrt{1+z^2}}\, dz=\int_0^32\pi\sqrt{1+z^2} \, dz\end{align*}

:unsure:

How do we know that $\theta$ goes all the way around? Is it because we don't have any restriction? :unsure:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
mathmari said:
So the boundaries are $0 \leq r\leq \sqrt{1+z^2}$, $0\leq z\leq 3$ and $0\leq \theta\leq 2\pi$, right?

So do we have so far the following?
It should be
\begin{align*}\int_M\, dV=\int_0^3\int_0^{\sqrt{1+z^2}}\int_0^{2\pi}\, r\, d\theta \, dr\, dz\end{align*}
An infinitesimal volume element in cylindrical coordinates is $r\, d\theta \, dr\, dz$.
Or put otherwise, the absolute value of the Jacobian determinant is $r$. 🧐

mathmari said:
How do we know that $\theta$ goes all the way around? Is it because we don't have any restriction?
Indeed.
We should be able to see it in a drawing. 🤔
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
We should be able to see it in a drawing. 🤔

With which programm can I draw that? :unsure:

I tried with Geogebra, but it doesn't work, maybe I write the input in a wrong way.

1630741334781.png


:unsure:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
mathmari said:
With which programm can I draw that? :unsure:

I tried with Geogebra, but it doesn't work, maybe I write the input in a wrong way.

Wolfram gives me:
1630758717250.png
In Geogebra 3D, I could make:

1630758517380.png


I used Tools / Intersect to intersect the hyperboloid and the planes.
 

Attachments

  • 1630758108155.png
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Klaas van Aarsen said:
Wolfram gives me:
View attachment 11317In Geogebra 3D, I could make:

View attachment 11318

I used Tools / Intersect to intersect the hyperboloid and the planes.

Ah to plot that do we use $x^2+y^2-z^2=1$ instead of $x^2+y^2-z^2\leq 1$ ? :unsure:
 
mathmari said:
Ah to plot that do we use $x^2+y^2-z^2=1$ instead of $x^2+y^2-z^2\leq 1$ ?
I guess so. Geogebra doesn't seem to like the $\le$. :unsure:
 

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