Calculate Time Dilation b/w t1 & t2 Using Average Mean Density

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating time dilation between two different times in the universe, specifically using the concept of average mean density at those times. Participants explore the implications of this approach for comoving observers and the relevance of gravitational time dilation in a non-stationary universe.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes calculating time dilation using average mean density at two different times, t1 and t2.
  • Another participant questions the relative nature of time dilation, asking for clarification on what is being compared.
  • It is suggested that time dilation is relative to different reference frames within the same universe, and using it as an absolute value may not be appropriate.
  • A participant notes that for comoving observers, there may be no time dilation since they agree on the elapsed time since the Big Bang.
  • One participant mentions that gravitational time dilation is typically applied in stationary spacetimes, which contrasts with the expanding universe scenario.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty about how to apply density to the time dilation equation, indicating a lack of clarity in the original proposal.
  • A participant reflects on their background in general relativity and mentions a new hypothesis that unexpectedly intersects with cosmological models.
  • It is reiterated that there may be no significant time dilation due to the average density of the universe.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of time dilation in the context of average mean density and comoving observers. There is no consensus on how to approach the calculation or the relevance of gravitational time dilation in this scenario.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexities of applying gravitational time dilation in a non-stationary universe and the potential limitations of the original proposal regarding density. There is an acknowledgment of the need for clarity in definitions and assumptions related to time dilation.

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I thinking how to calculate time dilation in different time with usage of average mean density.
Lets set that Universe have average mean density ##\Omega_{t1}## at time t1 and ##\Omega_{t2}## at time t2.
How to get time dilation, for comoving observers, between time t1 and t2?
 
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Time dilation of what relative to what?
 
mfb said:
Time dilation of what relative to what?
Dilation of time if Universe had density ##\Omega_{t1}## to case if Universe had density ##\Omega_{t2}## and same size.
 
Time dilation is something one reference frame has relative to the other in the same universe. Using it as absolute value does not make sense.
 
First of all, this is a Relativity question, so I'm moving this to the Relativity section.

Have you looked-up the equation for gravitational time dilation? Do you understand, in general, how to use it?

What you are describing (using mass density) isn't a common case of how the equation is used, but you may be able to utilize it for a similar purpose. One thing you will notice about the equation though, is that when you are far away from a massive object, it returns the result t0=tf (no time dilation). Depending on the particular thing you are trying to find, the answer may simply be that there is no significant time dilation due to the density of the universe.
 
mfb said:
Time dilation is something one reference frame has relative to the other in the same universe. Using it as absolute value does not make sense.
While it doesn't make sense to talk about different universes, it wouldn't be fundamentally different for the OP's problem to talk about different places in the current universe that have different densities...

...the issue I see is how to apply density to the equation at all.
 
"How to get time dilation, for comoving observers, between time t1 and t2?"

If I understand your question correctly, I think the answer you seek is that there is no time dilation for co moving observers. Time has passed at a fixed rate for co moving observers for the duration of the universe.

Such observers agree with one another on the amount of clock time since the Big Bang, and this is what we mean when we speak of the age of the universe in the FLRW cosmological model...13.8B years as the age of the universe.
 
russ_watters said:
Have you looked-up the equation for gravitational time dilation? Do you understand, in general, how to use it?
.
I think yes, at least I studied GR in university some years ago. But I work in area not related to GR.
Problem is - I have some new hypothesis not related to cosmology, and unexpectedly found it is necessary to test the hypothesis with cosmology models.
Well, I think I got some ideas for my tests, thanks.
 
russ_watters said:
Have you looked-up the equation for gravitational time dilation?

This won't help, because gravitational time dilation is only meaningful in stationary spacetimes, and the spacetime of the universe is not stationary (because the universe is expanding).
 
  • #10
Ans said:
I thinking how to calculate time dilation in different time with usage of average mean density.
Lets set that Universe have average mean density ##\Omega_{t1}## at time t1 and ##\Omega_{t2}## at time t2.
How to get time dilation, for comoving observers, between time t1 and t2?
There's no time dilation as a result of the average density of the universe.
 

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