Calculating Acceleration of Stellar Engines: A Comparison to Wikipedia Example

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the physics of stellar engines, specifically the calculation of acceleration produced by a Shkadov thruster, which is a reflective shell designed to harness light pressure from a star. Participants compare their calculations to those presented in a Wikipedia example, exploring the implications of different assumptions about the shell's properties and geometry.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a calculation for the acceleration due to light pressure of a Shkadov thruster, noting a discrepancy with the Wikipedia example by a factor of 4.
  • Another participant confirms agreement with the Wikipedia values and requests clarification on the first participant's derivation.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the physics, questioning the effectiveness of a reflective shell versus an absorbing shell in transferring momentum to the star.
  • One participant explains that the Shkadov thruster is a half-shell, emphasizing that the light reflected from the shell contributes to thrust, and critiques the Wikipedia diagram for not accurately representing the necessary solid angle coverage.
  • A later reply suggests that the shell can be shaped to optimize thrust, proposing a paraboloid design that focuses light effectively, leading to a calculation of force as F = L/c for a reflective shell.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the calculations and assumptions regarding the Shkadov thruster. Multiple competing views remain, particularly concerning the effectiveness of reflective versus absorbing shells and the implications of different geometries.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the assumptions made in their calculations, particularly about the nature of the shell and the distribution of light pressure. There are unresolved mathematical steps in the derivations presented.

mistergrinch
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Has anyone here looked at the physics of stellar engines? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_engine for an overview. In particular, I have done a simple calculation for the acceleration due to light pressure of a "Shkadov thruster", which is a reflective shell on one side of a star that stays in place due to the equilibrium of gravity and light pressure. My calculation for the acceleration this would produce on a star seems to be off by a factor of 4 from the Wikipedia example, which states:

For a star such as the Sun, with luminosity 3.85 × 10^26 W and mass 1.99 × 10^30 kg, the total thrust produced by reflecting half of the solar output would be 1.28 × 10^18 N. After a period of one million years this would yield an imparted speed of 20 m/s, with a displacement from the original position of 0.03 light-years. After one billion years, the speed would be 20 km/s and the displacement 34,000 light-years

Is anyone able to derive these numbers? Thanks!
 
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I got the same as the Wikipedia quote. How did you derive what you got?
 
Hmm OK I guess I don't understand the physics then. I'm thinking of photons being emitted in all directions, but half of them are hitting the reflective shell, which transfers momentum to the shell which then tugs on the star by gravity. I assumed an absorbing shell, because it seems to me that a reflective shell would just bounce the photons back to the star, counteracting the gravity tug and the star would go nowhere.

I used the radiation pressure P = Intensity/c = L /(4pi*r^2*c), where L is the luminosity of the sun.

If I calculate the radiation force on the shell in the x direction using differential ring elements I get the equation

dF = P*dA = L/(4*pi*r^2*c) * 2*pi*r^2 * sinB*dB =>
dF_x = L/2c * sinB * cosB dB

where B is the angle from the axis of the ring to the edge

Integrating this from A=0 to pi/2 gives F_x = L/4c = 3.25 * 10^17, which is 1/4 the value given in Wikipedia. Where am I going wrong here?
 
Last edited:
Hi mistergrinch

First, the Skhadov thruster is a half-shell. Half the Sun is exposed, thus the emission from that direction produces net thrust too, because light directed at the shell is bounced rearwards. The shell is shaped like a concentrating mirror, but working in reverse so the light emitted at the the focus, by the star, is reflected away from the mirror (and star) to produce thrust. The Wikipedia diagram doesn't seem quite right. The mirror needs to cover more solid angle in the direction of motion to produce the most thrust. My thrust figure is an idealization, but should be pretty close. The Thruster would need to be made of super-materials to be strong enough at that scale.
 
Oh I get it now, you can shape the shell any way you want if you choose the shell density so that radiation pressure cancels gravity at any distance. So you shape the shell like a paraboloid with the sun at the focus. If you crunch the numbers for a reflective shell you get F = L/c. Thanks!
 
mistergrinch said:
Oh I get it now, you can shape the shell any way you want if you choose the shell density so that radiation pressure cancels gravity at any distance. So you shape the shell like a paraboloid with the sun at the focus. If you crunch the numbers for a reflective shell you get F = L/c. Thanks!

Right on.
 

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