Calculating derivatives for the Euler equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of derivatives in the context of the Euler equation, specifically addressing a calculus of variations problem. Participants explore the differentiation of a function involving derivatives and the implications for a resulting differential equation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the function \( F=(1+yy')^2 \) and calculates the partial derivatives \( \frac {\partial F} {\partial y'}=2(1+yy')y \) and \( \frac {\partial F} {\partial y}=2(1+yy')y' \).
  • The same participant expresses uncertainty about the derivative \( \frac {d}{dx} \frac {\partial F} {\partial y'} \) and derives a differential equation \( 2yy'+2y^2y''=0 \), questioning if there is a mistake in their differentiation or technique.
  • Another participant suggests there is a mistake in the subtraction step rather than in the derivatives themselves.
  • A subsequent reply acknowledges a forgotten exponent and confirms the derivatives are correct, indicating the differential equation may be a familiar form that requires further exploration.
  • Another participant proposes simplifying the equation by factoring out a common term \( 2y \) to make it less intimidating.
  • The initial poster confirms a correction regarding the square in their notes and presents a new equation \( x=ay^2+b \).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the correctness of the derivatives, but there is disagreement regarding the handling of the resulting differential equation and the approach to solving it. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the final form and implications of the differential equation.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the form of the differential equation and its familiarity, indicating potential limitations in their understanding of the technique or context required for resolution.

mishima
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This is a calculus of variations problem from Boas chapter 9. I seem to be misunderstanding something with differentiation. Given

$$F=(1+yy')^2$$

then

$$\frac {\partial F} {\partial y'}=2(1+yy')y$$

and

$$\frac {\partial F} {\partial y}=2(1+yy')y' .$$

Now this one I am not so confident on...

$$\frac {d}{dx} \frac {\partial F} {\partial y'}=2y'+(4yy'^2+2y^2y'')$$

because after Euler's equation,

$$\frac {d}{dx} \frac {\partial F} {\partial y'} - \frac {\partial F} {\partial y}=0$$

I get this strange differential equation

$$2yy'+2y^2y''=0.$$

Am I making a mistake with the derivatives or just not realizing the correct technique for the final differential equation?
 
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I see a mistake in the subtraction, not in the derivatives :rolleyes:
 
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Ah, thanks...forgot the exponent there.

$$2yy'^2+2y^2y''=0$$

Good to know the derivatives are correct. I guess this diff eq is a form I haven't encountered in the text, or is a familiar form in disguise. Ill concentrate in that direction.
 
Maybe it becomes less intimidating if you leave out a common factor ##2y## :wink:
 
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Got it, I had forgotten the square in my notes as well...thanks.

$$x=ay^2+b$$
 

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