Calculating Energy Dissipation for a Moving Object Using Integral Calculus

  • Thread starter Thread starter Arm
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Energy Force
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating energy dissipation for a moving object using integral calculus, specifically focusing on the relationship between force, velocity, and displacement. Participants explore the integration of velocity with respect to time and position, while attempting to express velocity in terms of time.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the substitution of variables in integrals, particularly transitioning from position to time integration. There are attempts to express velocity as a function of time and questions about the correct representation of velocity in the context of the integral.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing guidance on variable substitution and integration techniques. Some participants express confusion about the representation of velocity, while others suggest methods to clarify the relationship between position and time. There is no explicit consensus on a single approach, but various methods are being explored.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention their limited experience with calculus, which may affect their understanding of the integration techniques being discussed. There are also references to specific results obtained through different methods, indicating varying levels of comfort with the material.

Arm
Messages
16
Reaction score
5
Homework Statement
Question
An object moves in one dimension according to the function ##x(t) = \frac{1}{3}at^3 ##, where a is a positive constant with units of ##\frac{m}{s^3}.## During this motion, a force F =−bv is exerted on the object, where v is the object’s velocity and b is a constant with units of ##\frac{kg}{s}. ## Which of the following expressions will yield the amount of energy dissipated by this force during the time interval from t=0 and t=T ?
Relevant Equations
##ΔE = \int_{x_1}^{x_2} F(x) dx ##
##F = -b*v##
##x(t) = \frac{1}{3}at^3 ##
##v(t) = at^2##
Since ##F = -b * v## I said ## F(x) = -b*v(x) ##
Also x(0) = 0 and x(T) = ## \frac{1}{3}aT^3 ##

I made the integral ## ΔE = -b* \int\limits_0^\frac{aT^3}{3} v(x) dx ##

I wanted to replace v(x) with v(t) somehow
I first tried ##v(x) = ax^2## but then realized that was wrong
Then I tried using ## x = v*t ## but couldn't do anything with it
 
Physics news on Phys.org
In the integral ##\int v dx##, try switching to a time integration by letting ##dx = \dfrac{dx}{dt}dt##.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: topsquark
TSny said:
In the integral ##\int v dx##, try switching to a time integration by letting ##dx = \dfrac{dx}{dt}dt##.
That would make it ##\int v(x)*v(t) dt##, I don't know what to do from there. (I've only done a handful of integrals before)
 
Arm said:
That would make it ##\int v(x)*v(t) dt##, I don't know what to do from there. (I've only done a handful of integrals before)
You don't have ##v(x)## in the integrand. You have ##v(t)## by differentiating ##x(t)## w.r.t time ##t##. The Force ##F## is a function of velocity, which is a function of time. That means ##F = f(t)##. While it does vary with position, it does so by varying the function for ##v## in time.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: topsquark
erobz said:
You don't have ##v(x)##. You have ##v(t)## by differentiating ##x(t)## w.r.t time ##t##.
So is ##v(x) = \dfrac{d(x(t))}{dt}##? I'm confused right now about how to represent v(x) as a derivative.
 
Arm said:
So is ##v(x) = \dfrac{d(x(t))}{dt}##? I'm confused right now about how to represent v(x) as a derivative.
Where are you coming up with ##v(x)##? You don't need it. You have changed the variable of integration from ##x## to ##t##, with the substitution @TSny showed.

##v = v(t) = \frac{d}{dt} \Big( x(t) \Big) ##
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: topsquark
If you want to do it the long way solve for ##t(x)##. Then substitute that into ##v(t)##. $$v(x) = v( t(x) )$$ Then, the integral is:

$$ \int F dx = -b \int v( t(x) ) dx = - b \int_{x(0)}^{x(T)} v(x) dx $$

But I think you will find it preferable to transform the integral to the time domain.

$$ \int F dx = \int F(t) dx = -b \int v(t) dx = -b \int v(t) \cdot v(t) dt = -b \int_{0}^{T} {v(t)}^2 dt $$

You should do both so you can play around with these concepts.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: topsquark
To @Arm:
Look,
If ##x = \frac{1}{3}at^3##, it follows that ##v=at^2.##
Following @TSny's suggestion,
##Fdx=F\dfrac{dx}{dt}dt=F(at^2)dt = (-bat^2)(at^2)dt##
Integrate.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: topsquark
erobz said:
If you want to do it the long way solve for ##t(x)##. Then substitute that into ##v(t)##. $$v(x) = v( t(x) )$$ Then, the integral is:

$$ \int F dx = -b \int v( t(x) ) dx = - b \int_{x(0)}^{x(T)} v(x) dx $$

But I think you will find it preferable to transform the integral to the time domain.

$$ \int F dx = \int F(t) dx = -b \int v(t) dx = -b \int v(t) \cdot v(t) dt = -b \int_{0}^{T} {v(t)}^2 dt $$

You should do both so you can play around with these concepts.
kuruman said:
To @Arm:
Look,
If ##x = \frac{1}{3}at^3##, it follows that ##v=at^2.##
Following @TSny's suggestion,
##Fdx=F\dfrac{dx}{dt}dt=F(at^2)dt = (-bat^2)(at^2)dt##
Integrate.
My calculus is very bad which is why I don't follow the steps where you change domains, but I ended up solving it by using ##v(x(t))##

Thank you
 
  • #10
Arm said:
My calculus is very bad which is why I don't follow the steps where you change domains, but I ended up solving it by using ##v(x(t))##

Thank you
I hope you mean you used ##v(x) = v( t(x) )##, because ##v(x) \neq v( x(t) )##?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: topsquark
  • #11
Arm said:
My calculus is very bad which is why I don't follow the steps where you change domains, but I ended up solving it by using ##v(x(t))##

Thank you
You are welcome. Since you solved it, will you post the answer that you got?
 
  • #12
erobz said:
I hope you mean you used ##v(x) = v( t(x) )##, because ##v(x) \neq v( x(t) )##?
Yeah that's what I meant, mistyped the reply
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: erobz
  • #13
kuruman said:
You are welcome. Since you solved it, will you post the answer that you got?
## \frac{-ba^2T^5}{5} ##
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: SammyS and erobz
  • #14
Arm said:
## \dfrac{-ba^2T^5}{5} ##
You might want to consider whether the result should be positive or negative.
 
  • #15
Arm said:
## \frac{-ba^2T^5}{5} ##
Thank you for posting your solution. Note that if you followed the method in post #8, you could have done it in your head, $$\int_0^T(-bat^2)(at^2)dt=-\frac{1}{5}ba^2T^5.$$It's something worth considering for future reference next time you encounter a problem like this.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Arm

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
798
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
976
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
2K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
1K
Replies
3
Views
834
Replies
4
Views
1K
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K