Calculating Heat Sink Area for 6ft Deep Heat Rejection

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around estimating the area required for a heat sink to reject 20,000 kW of heat 6 feet below the surface, with the goal of cooling a fluid from 30°C to 19°C. Participants explore the feasibility of this approach in the context of geothermal energy harnessing from an oil field, including considerations for pipeline layout and cooling methods.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests help in estimating the heat sink area needed for a significant heat rejection task.
  • Another participant questions the feasibility of dumping such a large amount of heat into the ground and raises concerns about where the energy would go.
  • Concerns are expressed regarding the appropriateness of a 6-foot depth for the heat sink, suggesting that it may not account for seasonal changes in soil moisture and frost depth.
  • Guidance is provided that suggests a minimum trench depth and separation for infeed and outfeed lines, with variations based on local climate conditions.
  • Participants discuss the potential need for antifreeze in the fluid depending on environmental conditions and the importance of using suitable effluents.
  • Calculations are presented to illustrate the extensive trenching required for the proposed heat rejection, emphasizing the high costs involved.
  • One participant suggests using seawater for cooling instead, citing its lower temperature, but notes the operator's hesitance to implement a seawater cooling system.
  • Technical details about the organic Rankine cycle and the properties of the working fluid R134a are shared, including mass flow rates and enthalpy values before and after cooling.
  • Further cooling methods, such as cooling towers and cooling fans, are mentioned, but the participant expresses uncertainty about how to quantify these options.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the feasibility of the proposed heat rejection method, with some raising significant concerns about practicality and costs, while others maintain confidence in their calculations and explore alternative cooling methods. No consensus is reached regarding the best approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations related to local climate conditions, trenching requirements, and the specific characteristics of the working fluid, which may affect the overall feasibility of the proposed heat sink design.

Harkaran Singh
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Could anyone please help me with the area of heat sink required if I want to dump heat 6 feet below the surface?
The heat to be rejected is 20000 kW
Temperature of the fluid has to be dropped from 30 deg C to 19 deg C.
I need rough estimates of the area required to lay down looped pipelines to achieve this temperature drop
 
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Hello Harkaran, :welcome:

Not good to post the same question twice: IF someone answers, confusion results.

20 MW is a lot of heat flow to pump into the ground. And sustaining that for long periods is even more difficult. Where would the energy go ?
 
BvU said:
Hello Harkaran, :welcome:

Not good to post the same question twice: IF someone answers, confusion results.

20 MW is a lot of heat flow to pump into the ground. And sustaining that for long periods is even more difficult. Where would the energy go ?

Sorry about posting it twice.
I'm doing a study to harness geothermal energy from matured oil field. Lots of water is produced with oil and idea is to use organic rankine cycle to convert that to electricity.
The problem is that there are no good sources for cooling and I was considering dumping the heat below the surface of ground if possible.
So I wanted a rough estimate of the area required to dump this heat and weather it will be feasible
 
Are you positive about your numbers?

I worked through a little of this mostly to show you why some things seem way out of line:

First off:
6 feet down may not be a good choice. Does this take into account the annual change in the soil moisture line and the same depth depth of frost? The guidance we have in the US suggests that the depth of trench should be below both lowest points mentioned above by at least 0.5m. The infeed and outfeed lines in the trench should be separated by at least 1 foot. Where I work is very arid, so that level is 12-19 feet. Multiple vertical "well-like trenches" are common to minimize the impacted area and reduce trenching costs.

Also:
Your fluid may need antifreeze depending on climate and requirements like pH control. You cannot generally use any old effluent.

Next:
The length of linear trench varies by climate. At 45N latitude in North America, the guidance is 500 linear feet of trench per ton. Your value will be different. A ton is 12000 btu/hr. Your 20 mW is therefore ~5680 tons. 5680 times a minimum of (let's say) 500 ft of trench is huge. For example, that is 5680, 500 foot deep wells with pipe.

The cost of the pipe, heat exchangers, antifreeze, and digging any kind of trench is astronomical, IMO. In reality:

You definitely need specific qualified geothermal expert guidance for your location.
 
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jim mcnamara said:
Are you positive about your numbers?

I worked through a little of this mostly to show you why some things seem way out of line:

First off:
6 feet down may not be a good choice. Does this take into account the annual change in the soil moisture line and the same depth depth of frost? The guidance we have in the US suggests that the depth of trench should be below both lowest points mentioned above by at least 0.5m. The infeed and outfeed lines in the trench should be separated by at least 1 foot. Where I work is very arid, so that level is 12-19 feet. Multiple vertical "well-like trenches" are common to minimize the impacted area and reduce trenching costs.

Also:
Your fluid may need antifreeze depending on climate and requirements like pH control. You cannot generally use any old effluent.

Next:
The length of linear trench varies by climate. At 45N latitude in North America, the guidance is 500 linear feet of trench per ton. Your value will be different. A ton is 12000 btu/hr. Your 20 mW is therefore ~5680 tons. 5680 times a minimum of (let's say) 500 ft of trench is huge. For example, that is 5680, 500 foot deep wells with pipe.

The cost of the pipe, heat exchangers, antifreeze, and digging any kind of trench is astronomical, IMO. In reality:

You definitely need specific qualified geothermal expert guidance for your location.
Thank you for your insight.

Yes, I agree this is highly impractical.

My first suggestion to the operator is to use sea water for cooling but they are a bit hesitant in installing a sea water cooling system there.
Sea water is at a temp of 9 deg C.

I'm positive about my numbers. The organic fluid I'm using is R134a and the mass flowrate is 120 kg/sec.
Sseawater at 1000 kg/sec mass flowrate and 9 deg C temp I achieve the required heat dump into the sea water via a heat exchanger with 5 deg C pinch point.

Can you suggest any other methods to dump this heat? I can think of cooling towers and cooling fans but I'm not entirely sure how to quantify these two ideas.

Just to put the numbers to you:
Organic Rankine Cycle
Working fluid is R134a
Mass flowrate= 120 kg/sec
Enthalpy of the fluid before cooling is 420 kJ/kg and temp is 30.3 deg C
Enthalpy of fluid after cooling is 226 kJ/kg and temp is 19.3 deg C
 
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