Calculating Relativistic Velocity from Work and Mass

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining relativistic velocity from a specified amount of work done on a body starting from rest, given its rest mass. Participants explore various approaches and equations related to relativistic mechanics, energy conservation, and the implications of work on velocity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Jake initiates the discussion by asking how to calculate relativistic velocity from work done on a body with a given rest mass.
  • Some participants suggest that the method of calculating velocity depends on whether the work is done by the body itself (as in a rocket) or from an external source (like in a particle accelerator).
  • One participant mentions using conservation of energy, stating that the work done equals the increase in kinetic energy.
  • Another participant proposes setting up an integral of force over distance, indicating that this would lead to the relativistic kinetic energy formula.
  • A formula for total energy is provided, equating it to rest energy plus work done, leading to a derived expression for velocity.
  • Discussion includes the use of rapidities and hyperbolic functions to express velocity in terms of work and rest mass.
  • There is a mention of the infinite work required to reach the speed of light, highlighting the implications of relativistic physics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple competing views and approaches to the problem, and there is no consensus on a single method or formula for calculating relativistic velocity from work done.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about the conditions under which work is applied and the definitions of terms like relativistic velocity and kinetic energy. The mathematical steps and their implications are not fully resolved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals studying relativistic mechanics, physics students exploring energy and motion, and those curious about the relationship between work and velocity in a relativistic context.

jaketodd
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I am wondering how to determine relativistic velocity from a given amount of work done on a body starting from rest with a given rest mass.

This is not homework.

Thanks in advance,

Jake
 
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It depends where the work is being done. If the accelerating body is a rocket then the relativistic rocket equations apply. See for instance

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/rocket.html

If the work is being done from outside the accelerated body ( such as in a particle accelerator ) the relativistic expression is the same as the Newtonian one but for a factor of γ or γ2
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mentz114 said:
It depends where the work is being done. If the accelerating body is a rocket then the relativistic rocket equations apply. See for instance

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/rocket.html

If the work is being done from outside the accelerated body ( such as in a particle accelerator ) the relativistic expression is the same as the Newtonian one but for a factor of γ or γ2

Thanks for the link, but I still could use some help...

Here's the equation it provides for velocity:
v = at / sqrt[1 + (at/c)2]

How do we get 'a' and 't' from a given amount of work done on a given mass from rest?

Maybe I shouldn't have said "relativistic velocity." I just want to know how to get the velocity it has compared to when it was at rest, due to the given amount of work done to the given mass.

Thanks,

Jake
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Use conservation of energy. The work done is equal to the increase in kinetic energy.
 
You could set up an integral of the force dp/dt over dx, where p is the relativistic momentum. This would be unnecessary work, however, because when you evaluate it you just end up with the relativistic kinetic energy formula (as per Mentz's suggestion).
 
The total energy is given by
[tex]\frac{mc^2}{\sqrt{1-v^2/c^2}}[/tex]

It is also given by
[tex]mc^2+w[/tex]

Set those two expressions equal and solve for v which gives:
[tex]v=\pm\frac{c \sqrt{w \left(2 c^2 m+w\right)}}{c^2 m+w}[/tex]
 
In terms of rapidities,
DaleSpam's expressions would be
[itex]mc^2 \cosh\theta[/itex] and [itex]mc^2+w[/itex],
where velocity [itex]v=\tanh\theta[/itex].

So, [itex]v=\tanh\left(\cosh^{-1}\left(1+\displaystyle\frac{w}{mc^2}\right)\right)[/itex].
 
It's getting over my head, but thanks all.

Jake
 
DaleSpam said:
Set those two expressions equal and solve for v which gives:
[tex]v=\pm\frac{c \sqrt{w \left(2 c^2 m+w\right)}}{c^2 m+w}[/tex]

If we rewrite Dalespam's expression slightly differently as:

[tex]v=\pm c \sqrt{1- \left(\frac{mc^2}{ mc^2+w}\right)^2}[/tex]

it is slightly easier to see that the work required to achieve v=c is infinite.
 

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