Calculating the Potential of Tidal Force: A Mathematical Explanation

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical formulation of tidal forces and their corresponding potential. Participants are examining the relationship between the force derived from a potential and the conditions under which this relationship holds true, particularly in the context of conservative forces.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are exploring how to derive the potential from the tidal force expression and questioning the mathematical steps involved in confirming that the force is conservative. There are inquiries about the process of taking gradients and the implications of curl in determining conservativeness.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants seeking clarification on the mathematical derivation of the potential from the force. Some have offered insights into the definitions and properties of conservative forces, while others express uncertainty about specific steps in the calculus involved.

Contextual Notes

There appears to be a lack of clarity regarding the specific results being referenced, as well as the foundational calculus knowledge required to engage fully with the problem. Participants are encouraged to share their progress and specific points of confusion to facilitate more targeted assistance.

Dustinsfl
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Given the tidal force
$$
-\alpha\left(\frac{\hat{\mathbf{d}}}{d^2}-\frac{\hat{\mathbf{d}}_0}{d_0^2}\right)
$$
How is the potential of the tidal force
$$
-\alpha\left(\frac{1}{d}+\frac{x}{d_0^2}\right)
$$
where ##-\nabla U_{tide} = \mathbf{F}_{tide}##.

Idon't see how we get the force by taking the negative of the gradient of U.
 
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The getting of a force by taking the negative gradient of a potential is the definition of the potential, we can't express any force this way but when we can we can by assumption and by definition. If you can take the gradient of some potential and get a specific force then that is a fact of the calculus and an observation about the specific force (that it is a conservative force). If you cannot (testable by seeing if the force has non-zero curl) then that is another possibility.

In general you take a given expression for a force, test for whether it is conservative (= curl free = can be expressed as a gradient) and if so you integrate the gradient relationship to find the potential the same as you integrate any derivative/differential equations. I'm not clear what you question actually is. Are you unclear as to the calculus steps? or unclear as to the physics of why its possible? i think I addressed the latter. If your assignment was to "do the math" then follow those instructions. If you are asking for math help then follow the guidelines (see link in my signature) and show what you've done so far and where you're getting stuck.
 
I don't see how they arrived to that result mathematically.
 
How do we even show the curl is zero?

##\hat{\mathbf{d}} =\langle \hat{\mathbf{x}},\hat{\mathbf{y}}, \hat{\mathbf{z}}\rangle## and ##\hat{\mathbf{d}}_0 =\langle \hat{\mathbf{x}}_0, \hat{\mathbf{y}}_0, \hat{\mathbf{z}}_0\rangle##

so ##d^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2## and ##d_0^2 = x_0^2 + y_0^2 + z_0^2##
 
Dustinsfl said:
I don't see how they arrived to that result mathematically.

I'm not clear on which "result". How they took the gradient to confirm the potential functions gradient is the force in question? Or how to start with the force and find the potential to which it is a gradient?

I can explain either or both but not if you aren't up to speed on the basic calculus. The gradient is the gradient. You should know how to calculate it. The reverse process is a matter of starting with one component and integrating with respect to one variable treating others as constants. When you get a solution you have a "constant" of integration which may depend on the remaining variables. you repeat this for each variable in turn until you have the full potential. (That's an overview and I'd be happy to work through an example.)
 

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