Can 3D Objects Exist in Higher Dimensions?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the existence of 3D objects in higher dimensions, focusing on whether certain properties or forms, such as knots and geometric shapes, can exist or be represented in dimensions beyond three. The scope includes theoretical implications and conceptual clarifications regarding dimensionality.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that knots are unique to three dimensions, as they cannot exist in two dimensions and become unmanageable in four or more dimensions.
  • There is a suggestion that true geometric shapes, like circles and squares, are inherently two-dimensional and require a third dimension to physically manifest.
  • One participant questions whether adding a dimension corrupts information from lower dimensions, leading to a discussion about the identity of objects across different dimensional spaces.
  • Another participant argues that a 3D cube in three dimensions is not identical to a 3D cube in four dimensions, citing differences in perception and existence across dimensions.
  • There is a consideration of whether higher dimensions allow for the recognition of 3D objects, such as knots, even if they cannot be perceived in the same way.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of higher dimensions for the existence and properties of 3D objects. There is no consensus on whether adding dimensions affects the information contained in lower dimensions or the identity of objects across dimensions.

Contextual Notes

Discussions include assumptions about dimensionality and the nature of geometric objects, with some participants questioning the implications of dimensionality on physical existence and recognition.

LightningInAJar
Messages
274
Reaction score
36
TL;DR
Higher Dimensions.
Assuming there are higher spatial dimensions are there things that exist in 3D that actually cannot exist in higher dimensions? Maybe even dimensions?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Yes. Knots. They only work in 3 dimensions.

You can't tie a piece of string into a knot in 2 dimensions, and in 4 or more, they just fall apart*.

* Unless you make a knot of a 3 dimensional object
 
  • Like
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: Keith_McClary, hmmm27, Hamiltonian and 2 others
DaveC426913 said:
Yes. Knots. They only work in 3 dimensions.

You can't tie a piece of string into a knot in 2 dimensions, and in 4 or more, they just fall apart*.

* Unless you make a knot of a 3 dimensional object
So all higher dimensions make knots impossible? Or just even ones like 4th, 6th, 8th, etc?

Anything else not possible?
 
LightningInAJar said:
So all higher dimensions make knots impossible? Or just even ones like 4th, 6th, 8th, etc?
Nothing to do with odd/even.

LightningInAJar said:
Anything else not possible?
Sure.

A true circle (or square, or whatever) is technically a two dimensional object. It can only physically exist to us if it has a third dimension. Likewise, a cube is a three dimensional object and would need a fourth dimension to physically exist in a four-dimensional world.
 
So you would say adding a dimension doesn't corrupt any information held within a lower dimension regarding the objects contained therein?
 
DaveC426913 said:
You have officially ruined my brain for the rest of the day at least. Probably no one will notice...
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: DaveC426913
LightningInAJar said:
So you would say adding a dimension doesn't corrupt any information held within a lower dimension regarding the objects contained therein?
Well, now we're in a pickle. What do you mean by "adding" a dimension?

Either there are three dimensions or there aren't. Either there are four (spatial) dimensions or there aren't.

I know of no way, even in principle, of changing the number of dimensions on-the-fly.

A better question might be: is a 3D cube in three dimensions identical to a 3D cube in four dimensions?

I'd say the answer is no.

A circle in Flatland is not the same as a circle in our 3D world. It is a physical, impassible barrier to Flatlanders, whereas to us, it can't even exist without being given a thin 3 dimensional height (such as ink on a paper).
 
I don't mean creating dimensions on the fly. Assuming as many (perhaps more) as 8 dimensions exist. No information is lost or unattainable while looking at a higher dimension when trying to see 3D space? Perhaps we don't see a 3D knot as a knot at all in 4D, but can still recognize that it is a knot in 3D?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
5K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
21
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K