Can a dosimetrist with an M.S. become a medical physicist PhD?

[Waaj]

Hi, I am new here and I am pursuing a BS in radiation therapy and I am planning on becoming a Dosimetrist hopefully sometime in the future and I am wondering if a dosimetrist can become a medical physicist? has it been done before and how would the process look like? hard/easy? any alternative ways? I honestly don't see schools and institutions being honest in terms of guiding a student that is why I am here :)

 

[berkeman]

Welcome to the PF.

Hi, I am new here and I am pursuing a BS in radiation therapy and I am planning on becoming a Dosimetrist hopefully sometime in the future and I am wondering if a dosimetrist can become a medical physicist? has it been done before and how would the process look like? hard/easy? any alternative ways? I honestly don't see schools and institutions being honest in terms of guiding a student that is why I am here :)

Can you say what country you are in, and what your background is so far in Undergrad? How much physics have you taken? What specialties in Medical Physics are you most interested in?

 

[Waaj]

Welcome to the PF.

Can you say what country you are in, and what your background is so far in Undergrad? How much physics have you taken? What specialties in Medical Physics are you most interested in?

(I am from Michigan US), I am still undergrad in radiation therapy. I have taken physics 1 and 2 and as well as I will be taking next year radiation physics 1 and 2 as well. I am interested in the radiation oncology. Upon researching I believe in that department they do more of quality assurance, watch SRS dosage and etc..

 

[Choppy]

Well the most common road to a PhD in medical physics begins with a bachelor's degree in physics. It's not too uncommon for people who come from other STEM fields to enter medical physics as graduate students, provided they have the necessary background. Most often that means engineering students.

For someone who's doing a bachelor's degree in radiation therapy... one of the biggest hurdles that you'll encounter is that you're probably not gaining the skill sets in physics and mathematics that you need to get through a medical physics PhD. Most RT programs don't go into enough detail that the students come out comfortable with the mathematics or programming skills needed to understand medical imaging (image reconstruction, designing image filters, MRI pulse sequences, etc.), radiation transport problems (numerical methods for solving the Boltzmann equation, Monte Carlo simulations of radiation interactions, convolution-superposition), fluence optimization techniques, medical statistics, and machine learning. And remember some (though not all) medical physics programs require their students to pass the same qualification exams as the physics students.

That said, not all graduate medical physics programs are created equal. Some don't go into as much depth as others and may be more flexible on the background of the students they'll take in.

And, I know people from hybrid physics-RT programs who've gone on to do master's degrees in medical physics. So it is *possible.*

Something else you might want to consider though, if you end up working as a dosimetrist, is the financial angle. Sure, by median salary medical physicists tend to make more than dosimetrists. But consider the opportunity cost. A medical physics PhD is going to take at least four years, if not longer. During that time, you probably won't be earning much money. Whereas you'll have a comfortable living as a dosimetrist over that same period. That's not to dissuade you, but it is something to think about.

 

[Waaj]

Well the most common road to a PhD in medical physics begins with a bachelor's degree in physics. It's not too uncommon for people who come from other STEM fields to enter medical physics as graduate students, provided they have the necessary background. Most often that means engineering students.

For someone who's doing a bachelor's degree in radiation therapy... one of the biggest hurdles that you'll encounter is that you're probably not gaining the skill sets in physics and mathematics that you need to get through a medical physics PhD. Most RT programs don't go into enough detail that the students come out comfortable with the mathematics or programming skills needed to understand medical imaging (image reconstruction, designing image filters, MRI pulse sequences, etc.), radiation transport problems (numerical methods for solving the Boltzmann equation, Monte Carlo simulations of radiation interactions, convolution-superposition), fluence optimization techniques, medical statistics, and machine learning. And remember some (though not all) medical physics programs require their students to pass the same qualification exams as the physics students.

That said, not all graduate medical physics programs are created equal. Some don't go into as much depth as others and may be more flexible on the background of the students they'll take in.

And, I know people from hybrid physics-RT programs who've gone on to do master's degrees in medical physics. So it is *possible.*

Something else you might want to consider though, if you end up working as a dosimetrist, is the financial angle. Sure, by median salary medical physicists tend to make more than dosimetrists. But consider the opportunity cost. A medical physics PhD is going to take at least four years, if not longer. During that time, you probably won't be earning much money. Whereas you'll have a comfortable living as a dosimetrist over that same period. That's not to dissuade you, but it is something to think about.

Awesome thank you so much for the breakdown. I know for sure if I choose that route I’ll have to do a lot of extra work besides schooling. But is it possible to go from dosimetrist MS to Medical Physics PhD? Aren’t they similar?

 

[gleem]

If you tell us the physics and math courses that you have taken we can give you more specific advice.

 

[Waaj]

If you tell us the physics and math courses that you have taken we can give you more specific advice.

I have taken Physics 1&2 and I’ll be taking radiation physics 1&2 as well. In terms of math for my program it only requires up to calc 1 which I already took. So math level up to calc 1.

 

[gleem]

A physics major will have taken at least calc 1,2 and 3 or whatever they call the full sequence. in addition a course in differential equations , and other courses in math as linear algebra and math methods in physics. As far as physics courses are concerned they take at least classical mechanics, electricity and magnetism (2 semesters each ), Thermodynamics/statistical mechanics, modern physics although much of this may be covered in the radiation physics course, and finally an intro to quantum mechanics.

But is it possible to go from dosimetrist MS to Medical Physics PhD? Aren’t they similar?

You are planning an MS in dosimetry? After your BS don't you only need to put a year in a certified medical dosimetry program? I do not think these are MS programs. If your eventual goal is to be a medical physicist you are unnecessarily stretching out the time to reach that goal.

The PhD programs are research oriented so if you are thinking of a career as a clinical MP an MSc would be fine. A number of courses/skills that Choppy mentioned are only relevant to research and not necessary for RT clinical activities. Now I have been away from the profession for over a decade and much has changed with regard to certification and residency requirements so @Choppy can help more in that regard.

The bottom line is you have to be a physicist or have an equivalent background to understand the literature and to safely and effectively manage the current clinical technology and implement new ones.

 

[ZapperZ]

I have taken Physics 1&2 and I’ll be taking radiation physics 1&2 as well. In terms of math for my program it only requires up to calc 1 which I already took. So math level up to calc 1.

I've asked this a million times before, and I'll ask this a million times again. Have you talked to your advisor regarding your intention here?

Zz.