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Can a graviton pull another graviton?

  1. Aug 19, 2009 #1
    thanks
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Aug 19, 2009 #2
    Wow, interesting question.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2009
  4. Aug 19, 2009 #3
    Certainly yes : a graviton couples to energy-momentum, gravitons carry energy momentum, so gravitons couple to gravitons. Of course, it's difficult to tell what's going on at high energy, but in the infrared, we are pretty confident that we know graviton-graviton scattering.
    Infrared behavior of graviton-graviton scattering

    Also, if you have access : R. Feynman "Quantum theory of gravitation", Acta Physica Polonica vol XXIV (1963) Fasc 6 (12)
     
  5. Aug 20, 2009 #4

    Vanadium 50

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    Humanino's correct - a graviton can attract gravitons.
     
  6. Aug 20, 2009 #5
    if so, then it can *not* be that the gravity of objects, lets say the earth gravity, will be symmetrically, but zones of extreme gravity and zones of none or at least very low gravity. and balls of billions of gravitones will wander in space attracting whatever in their path back to the object they left. is that true?
     
  7. Aug 20, 2009 #6
    Isn't this phenomenon what messes up the renormalization of gravity?
     
  8. Aug 20, 2009 #7
    Yes. Gravity is unique with regard to self interaction and somehow Einstein had that much figured out when he developed general relativity. That self interaction was one factor that complicated his formulation.

    Gravity atttacts ALL ordinary matter (and all forms of energy equivalence, including gravitons). Nothing escapes the effects of gravity. Not even time. Not heat.

    It's a key feature that sets gravity apart from the other forces: strong,weak, electromagnetic.

    Anybody know if anybody has developed "gravitons" icw with dark matter or dark energy??
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2009
  9. Aug 20, 2009 #8
    so how einstein solve it? how come the gravity around earth, i presume, symmetrically?
    i can think about something: graviton will set free only when two masses are close enough to make a certain tension, otherwise, just like power lines of a magnet which curve around it as long as it does not close to anyother magnet, and so graviton will keep it self a part of the others [gravitones] by going back and forth between the particle of mass that prodice\emitted it.
     
  10. Aug 20, 2009 #9

    Vanadium 50

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    A static gravitational field is not in an eigenstate of graviton number. Discussing "what the gravitons do" when discussing static gravitational fields is not something that is well-defined.
     
  11. Aug 20, 2009 #10
    well then, in dynamic gravitational field, are there

    zones of extreme gravity and zones of none or at least very low gravity. and balls of billions of gravitones will wander in space attracting whatever in their path back to the object they left. is that true?
     
  12. Aug 20, 2009 #11
    I've read, and don't quote these figures, they are for illustration only: that whereas perhaps a 100 watt light bulb would give off trillions upon trilions of photons per second, a typical atomic particle might exchange one gravition...and that over a period substantially longer than the life of the universe to date....
     
  13. Aug 20, 2009 #12
    Certainly yes. The interaction between gravitons should give the gravitational energy,which should be contained in the RHS of Einstein field equation. But until now we do not have the satisfactory local definition of gravitational energy-momentum tensor in the frame of Einstein's GR.
     
  14. Aug 21, 2009 #13

    Vanadium 50

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    No it's not. Gluons do too.
     
  15. Aug 21, 2009 #14

    Vanadium 50

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    No, it's not.
     
  16. Aug 21, 2009 #15

    Vanadium 50

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    Well, whatever you are reading is wrong - or at least grossly oversimplified. It's not even comparing the right things - real photons from a light bulb are not analogous to virtual gravitons from a static field.

    Static gravitational fields are not in an eigenstate of graviton number. You simply cannot say "this field is stronger so there must be more gravitons".
     
  17. Aug 21, 2009 #16
    can you describe to me how gravitons behave?
     
  18. Aug 21, 2009 #17
    A gross simplification to be sure....
     
  19. Aug 21, 2009 #18
    Vanadium posts:
    A gross simplification to be sure....

    Thanks, right you are... so many particles to keep track of!!!!!!
     
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