Can a particle / wave pass through a sheet of material?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of particles, particularly in relation to quantum tunneling and their interaction with thin sheets of material. Participants explore concepts from quantum mechanics, including the implications of particle detection and the atomic structure of materials, while considering both theoretical and experimental perspectives.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if a sheet of material is thinner than the wavelength of a particle, quantum tunneling may allow the particle to be detected on the other side.
  • Others argue that once detected, the particle can continue moving past the sheet, contingent on the experimental setup.
  • A participant references Rutherford's gold-foil experiment, suggesting that particles can pass through materials due to the atomic structure being mostly empty space, rather than quantum tunneling.
  • Another participant discusses the use of Schrödinger's equation to predict the future state of a particle after detection, indicating that it can be conceptualized as moving past the sheet.
  • One participant critiques the initial quantum tunneling scenario, noting that at very small scales, the atomic structure of the material cannot be ignored, and that particles may pass through not due to tunneling but rather through interactions akin to armor-piercing projectiles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms by which particles interact with thin sheets of material, with no consensus reached on whether tunneling or atomic structure plays a more significant role in this context.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the specific atomic structure of materials and the conditions under which tunneling is considered. The discussion highlights the complexity of quantum mechanics and the challenges in applying theoretical models to practical scenarios.

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TL;DR
Can a particle / wave pass through a sheet
I have heard that if you could make a sheet of material thinner than a wavelength representing a particle and fire particles at it, that particle might be detected on the other side of the sheet material when you try and detect it due to Quantum Tunneling i believe.

Does that mean that it's just been detected there once or can it actively carry on moving past the sheet once it has appeared on the other side?

Thanks
 
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MikeeMiracle said:
Does that mean that it's just been detected there once or can it actively carry on moving past the sheet once it has appeared on the other side?

Yes, it can carry on moving past the sheet after detection as long as your experimental setup allows it.
 
Well, as learned by Rutherford in his famous gold-foil experiment, it's no problem for particles (in this case ##\alpha## particles from some radioactive substance) to just go through the foil. This has nothing to do with tunneling but with the fact that matter is pretty "empty". It consists of small atomic nuclei (typical scales are some fm, i.e., some ##10^{-15} \text{m}##) around which the electons are grouped in pretty large distances (typical scale is the Bohr radius of a hydrogen atom which is about ##5 \cdot 10^{-11} \; \text{m}##. Only a few ##\alpha## particles got scattered due to the Coulomb force between nuclei and the ##\alpha## particles. This was in fact the discovery of the atomic nucleus and the beginning of modern atomic physics.
 
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MikeeMiracle said:
Does that mean that it's just been detected there once or can it actively carry on moving past the sheet once it has appeared on the other side?
Once it's been detected at any location, we use Schrödinger's equation to calculate the future evolution of its state starting from the initial condition "At time T it was right here where where our detector triggered at that time". The math-free layman's summary of this calculation is that you can think of it as actively carrying on moving past the sheet.

Note that this isn't all that different than what we did at the beginning to calculate the tunneling probability: We used Schrödinger's equation to calculate the future evolution the particle state; the difference is that we we started from the initial condition "it is moving towards the barrier with momentum p".
 
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MikeeMiracle said:
I have heard that if you could make a sheet of material thinner than a wavelength representing a particle and fire particles at it, that particle might be detected on the other side of the sheet material when you try and detect it due to Quantum Tunneling i believe.
In most intro QM courses, tunnelling is introduced by solving Schrödinger's equation for a particle with energy ##E## when the potential ##V(x)## is zero everywhere except between ##x=0## and ##x=A##, where it is ##V_0>E##. That corresponds to a barrier of thickness ##A##.

The tunneling probaility drops off as the thickness of the barrier increases, but there's no hard cutoff at one wavelength. The wave function declines exponentially in the range beween ##x=0## and ##x=A## but it never goes all the way to zero.

This idealized setup is a good start for understanding most problems in which tunneling is relevant, but it turns out to be a poor description of the specific setup you're describing, where the barrier is a sheet of material only a few wavelengths thick. The problem is that at this scale we cannot ignore the atomic structure of the material making up the barrier. For most physically reasonable configurations ##V_0## is less than ##E## and the particle gets to the other side, but not because of tunneling - it gets through the barrier the same way an armor-piercing shell gets through a sheet of armor plate.
 
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