Can a Projection Be an Isomorphism If It Maps to a Proper Subset?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of linear transformations, specifically projections, in the context of vector spaces. Participants explore whether a projection onto a proper subset of a vector space can be an isomorphism, examining the implications of dimensionality and bijectiveness.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that if V and W are finite-dimensional vector spaces with different dimensions, then there cannot be a bijective linear transformation from V to W.
  • Another participant clarifies that a projection is typically defined from a vector space V onto a subspace W, and if W is a proper subset of V, then dim(W) is less than dim(V), which implies that the projection cannot be bijective.
  • It is noted that in the case where dim(W) equals dim(V), the projection acts as the identity and is bijective, but this does not apply when W is a proper subset.
  • One participant suggests that the rank-nullity theorem may be relevant, indicating that if the nullity is zero, the dimension of the image would be the entire space.
  • Multiple participants emphasize that since W is a proper subset of V, there exists at least one vector in V that is not in W, leading to the conclusion that the projection T is not surjective.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that a projection onto a proper subset cannot be an isomorphism due to the differences in dimensionality and the lack of surjectiveness. However, there are nuances in the explanations and some uncertainty about the implications of the rank-nullity theorem.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the correctness of their reasoning and the implications of dimensionality in the context of projections and isomorphisms. Some mathematical steps and definitions are not fully resolved, particularly concerning the rank-nullity theorem.

Myr73
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If V and W are finite-dimensional vector spaces, and dim(V) does not equal dim(W) then there is no bijective linear transformation from V to W.

An isomorphism between V and W is a bijective linear transformation from V to W. That is, it is both an onto transformation and a one to one.1- Question
Let W be a proper subset of an vector space V, and let T be the projections onto W. Prove that T is not an isomorphism.

2- Answer

Since T is a projection onto W then, T(v)=w, therefore dim(V) > dim(W)

However since W is a proper subset of the vector space V, W is missing an element of V and therefore dim (w) is smaller then dim (V) and is not equal. Therefore it is not a one to one, and so is not an isomorphism.

This is my answer, however I am unsure if that is correct. It makes sense in my mind that a subset of a vector space is smaller then the vector space itself in dimension, however I am uncertain. Can you help me please?

Thank you,
 
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Hi,
only a few suggestions, in general a projection is from a vector space ##V## in a subspace (subset that is a vector space) ##W##, so as you said we have that ## dim(W) \leq dim(V) ##, in the ##=## case your projection is the identity and is bijective but if ## dim(W) < dim(V) ## the two dimensions are different so is not a bijection...
The second question is a conseguence of the first, in general projections are surjective and linerar operators so you can define ##T:V\rightarrow W## specifing where you send the basis of ##V## in ##W##, for example ##\{(x,y,0):x,y\in\mathbb{R}^{3}\}## is a subspace of dimension ##2## of ##\mathbb{R}^{3}## you can project from ##\mathbb{R}^{3}## sending ##e_{1}=(1,0,0)\mapsto (1,0,0),e_{2}=(0,1,0)\mapsto (0,1,0)\mapsto (0,1,0),e_{3}=(0,0,1)\mapsto (0,0,0)##.

I hope to clarify something but in general your answer was correct,
by
Simone
 
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Ssnow said:
Hi,
only a few suggestions, in general a projection is from a vector space ##V## in a subspace (subset that is a vector space) ##W##, so as you said we have that ## dim(W) \leq dim(V) ##, in the ##=## case your projection is the identity and is bijective <Snip>

Sure, for one, an n-dim space does not have non-trivial n-dimensional subspaces.
 
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Myr73 said:
<Snip>

However since W is a proper subset of the vector space V, W is missing an element of V and therefore dim (w) is smaller then dim (V) and is not equal. Therefore it is not a one to one, and so is not an isomorphism.

This is my answer, however I am unsure if that is correct. It makes sense in my mind that a subset of a vector space is smaller then the vector space itself in dimension, however I am uncertain. Can you help me please?

Thank you,

Maybe Rank-nullity will work: Given two bases with n vectors , the nullity will be 0 , so the dimension of the image is the entire space.
 
Since you are given that W is a proper subset of V, it follows that there is some vector in V that is NOT in W and therefore T is not surjective.
 
HallsofIvy said:
Since you are given that W is a proper subset of V, it follows that there is some vector in V that is NOT in W and therefore T is not surjective.

This is what I had assumed, I just waanted to verify that this is correct. Thanks all
 

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