Can a QM/GR overlap provide a breakthrough in understanding gravity?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Ran out of sp
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Gravity Overlap
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the potential overlap between quantum mechanics (QM) and general relativity (GR) in understanding gravity. Participants explore various models and concepts, including the idea of "twisted space" as a means to reconcile the two theories and explain gravitational and electromagnetic phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a fundamental mismatch between GR and QM regarding the nature of space, suggesting that GR involves bending space to create mass and gravity, while QM treats space as a neutral backdrop for particle interactions.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about the feasibility of reconciling GR and QM, citing Einstein's struggles with the issue.
  • A participant proposes a model using a two-dimensional representation of twisted space to illustrate how charge might be represented, drawing analogies to physical systems like twisted ropes and elastic bands.
  • The same participant suggests that the twisting of space could lead to a model linking mass and charge without invoking gravitons or virtual photons, and proposes an experimental test involving a whirlpool and a double slit to observe interference patterns.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; there are competing views regarding the validity and potential of the proposed models, with some expressing skepticism about the feasibility of reconciling GR and QM.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the proposed models are unconventional and may not align with established physics, indicating a need for further exploration and validation.

Ran out of sp
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
There is a basic mis-match in the way GR and QM picture space.
In GR, space bends to produce mass and gravity. In QM, space is a nuetral background for the actions of particles and force fields.
Most recent work attempts to extend the QM/QED/QCD model to explain gravity.
The opposite approach would be to extend GR to incorporate different modes of distortion of space, similar to the way in which solid bodies can undergo bending moment, shear and torque as well as simple tension and compression.
In particular, some form of twist in space might be used to model the effect of charge. Twists in opposite directions could be labelled positive and negative charges. Opposite charges would tend to unravel, pull together and cancel each other out. Like charges would repel, in both cases relieving the local stresses.
Although I have a preferred model to explain this, at this stage I would like some feedback on the general principle. It offers the promise of an overlap between GR and QM and a simpler explanation of a wide range of measurable effects.
I am aware that such an approach is not conventional but I am looking for ways to tie it back to established physics.
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
I really can't comment upon your "twisted space" concept. All that I know, as a non-scientist, is that Einstein bailed out on trying to reconcile GR an QM. If he couldn't do it, I'm not about to try.
 
A simple two dimensional representation would be to twist a stretched rubber membrane to create a stress. A clockwise twist might be labelled a positive charge and an anti-clockwise one would be a negative charge.
If locked in some way, this would be like the stored energy in the twisted ropes powering a Roman ballista, much greater than a simple linear extension of the same rope.
One aspect of twisted strands is that they become shortened. The ends of a piece of string looped around your finger are closer together than when the string is in a straight line.
When looping an elastic band around your finger and pulling it back to the same extension, there is an additional tension in the elastic.
In the case of a twist of the fabric of space itself, there will be a small radial tension in addition to the stress relating to the angle of distortion at any point.
The radial effect can be modeled as gravity and the angled displacement can be modeled as an electric field. All charged particles have a mass but many masses are neutral.
While being well short of a theory of everything, this approach holds out the carrot of linking mass and charge in a fairly simple model without the need for gravitons or virtual photons.
One way of testing the idea of space being able to twist in some way would be to aim a whirlpool at a double slit and see what kind of interference pattern results.
 
Please click the "Rules" link at the top of any page here, and read the section on Overly Speculative Posts.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
705
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
6K
  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
5K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
6K
  • · Replies 264 ·
9
Replies
264
Views
24K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
4K