Can a Surface in R³ Have This Prescribed Riemannian Metric?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence of a surface embedded in R³ that can possess a prescribed Riemannian metric given by a specific matrix. Participants explore the implications of this metric, the conditions under which such a surface may exist, and the mathematical representations involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a surface S embedded in R³ could have the induced metric coinciding with the given Riemannian metric g.
  • Others argue that if the surface is represented as z = f(x, y), the induced metric components lead to conditions that suggest the surface may not be embedded in Euclidean space.
  • A participant mentions the possibility of finding a conformally equivalent metric and discusses the conditions under which this might be achieved.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about the non-existence of such an embedded surface and questions how to derive the original metric from a conformally equivalent one.
  • One participant notes that the Riemannian tensor indicates constant negative curvature for the proposed metric, suggesting implications for the geometry of the surface.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence of an embedded surface with the prescribed metric. While some suggest it may be possible, others contend that the conditions derived from the metric indicate otherwise. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the existence of such a surface.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific mathematical conditions and relationships between the components of the metric, indicating that certain assumptions about the embedding space may be necessary. The discussion includes considerations of conformal metrics and curvature, which may introduce additional complexity.

KarstenKarsten
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Consider a Riemannian metric in R^2, e.g. consider g given at a point (x,y) by the matrix
(1 x
x 1+x^2 )

Is there a surface S, embedded in R^3, which has the property that the metric on S which is induced by the Euclidean metric of R^3 coincides with the given metric g? If yes, what representation does S possess?
 
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This isn't HW, is it?

Hi, KarstenKarsten,

KarstenKarsten said:
Consider a Riemannian metric in R^2, e.g. consider g given at a point (x,y) by the matrix
\left[ \begin{matrix} 1 & x \\ x & 1+x^2 \end{matrix} \right]

Is there a surface S, embedded in R^3, which has the property that the metric on S which is induced by the Euclidean metric of R^3 coincides with the given metric g? If yes, what representation does S possess?

Sounds like you are asking for an embedded surface in E^3 which has the stated metric. A good keyword to look up in a good differential geometry textbook should be "Monge patch" or "embedding". In any case, the idea is simple: write down an undetermined basis (two vectors in E^3) for the tangent space to some point of S, form their E^3 inner product, and compare with the desired induced metric on S. See "Coordinate tutorial" at http://www.math.ucr.edu/home/baez/RelWWW/group.html for some radially symmetric examples.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Chris Hillman said:
Hi, KarstenKarsten,
Sounds like you are asking for an embedded surface in E^3 ...

It looks like it is not embedded surface in E^3 (3D Euclidian space). If the surface is given to us in the form z = f(x, y), then the metric induced on the surface is

g_{1,1} = 1 +f_{x}^{2}, g_{1,2}=g_{2,1} = f_{x} f_{y}, g_{2,2} = 1 + f_{y}^{2}.

In Karsten case
g_{1,1} = 1 , g_{1,2}=g_{2,1} = x, g_{2,2} = 1 + x^{2}.

That means f_{x} =0 and should be g_{1,2}=g_{2,1} = 0.
Hence, the surface is embedded in some noneucleadian 3D space.
 
Thanks!

I realize now that, at least, one can find a conformally equivalent metric
g~_{ij} = c(x) g_{ij}
with c(x) the solution of c(x)^2-c(x)(2+x^2) +1=0. And with g~ be metric of a in E^3 embedded surface. The components of g~ can then also be computed (and are slightly more complicated terms).
 
Right, you don't need a noneuclidean embedding space.
 
For me, it would somehow be counterintuitive that such an embedded surface should not exist.
But can I obtain from the surface with the conformally equivalent metric a surface which actually has the very same metric I started with? How?
(In the very beginning I started with the ansatz, as gvk proposed, of course...)
 
The Riemannian tensor for your metric is R_{1,2,1,2}=-1. That means your embedded 2D manifold has constant negative curvature. Of course, you always can orthogonize your metric to get conformal presentation in isothermal coords.
 
Last edited:

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