Can $[a] \times [b]$ be an element of ${\Z / n\Z}^{\times}$?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether the product of two elements $[a]$ and $[b]$ from the group ${\Z / n\Z}^{\times}$ is also an element of ${\Z / n\Z}^{\times}$. The scope includes theoretical aspects of group theory and properties of modular arithmetic.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Cbarker1 presents the problem of proving that if $[a]$ and $[b]$ are in ${\Z / n\Z}^{\times}$, then $[a] \times [b]$ is also in ${\Z / n\Z}^{\times}$.
  • Some participants argue that the statement is not true, providing a counterexample with $[2]$ and $[3]$ in ${\Z / 6\Z}^{\times}$, where their product results in $[0]$, which is not in the group.
  • There is a clarification about the definition of ${\mathbb Z/n\mathbb Z}^{\times}$, which includes elements that are coprime to $n$.
  • One participant suggests that the problem can be rephrased in simpler terms, focusing on the gcd condition: if $\gcd(a,n)=\gcd(b,n)=1$, then $\gcd(ab,n)=1$.
  • Another participant discusses the group structure of $(\mathbb Z/n\mathbb Z)^\times$, noting that it consists of elements with multiplicative inverses and provides examples of inverses in specific cases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the initial claim, with some providing counterexamples and others attempting to clarify the conditions under which the claim might hold. The discussion remains unresolved as multiple perspectives are presented without consensus.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the elements and their properties, particularly concerning the gcd conditions and the nature of the group elements.

cbarker1
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Dear Everybody,

I don't know where to begin. So Here is the problem:
$\newcommand{\Z}{\mathbb{Z}}$
Prove that if $[a]$ and $$ are in ${\Z / n\Z}^{\times}$, then $[a] \times $ is in ${\Z / n\Z}^{\times}$.

Thanks,
Cbarker1
 
Last edited:
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Hi Cbarker1.

This is not true. For example: $[2]\in\left(\mathbb Z/6\mathbb Z\right)^\times$ and $[3]\in\left(\mathbb Z/6\mathbb Z\right)^\times$ but $[2]\times[3]=[2\times3]=[6]=[0]\not\in\left(\mathbb Z/6\mathbb Z\right)^\times$.
 
Olinguito;114000 said:
Hi Cbarker1.

This is not true. For example: $[2]\in\left(\mathbb Z/6\mathbb Z\right)^\times$ and $[3]\in\left(\mathbb Z/6\mathbb Z\right)^\times$ but $[2]\times[3]=[2\times3]=[6]=[0]\not\in\left(\mathbb Z/6\mathbb Z\right)^\times$.

Sorry, I forget to define the set:
${\mathbb Z/n\mathbb Z}^{\times}=\left\{[a] \in{\mathbb Z/n\mathbb Z}^{\times}: GCD(a,n)=1 \right\}$


I think the counterexample is wrong? If not, please explain.
 
Cbarker1;114002 I think the counterexample is wrong? If not said:
What don't you understand? The example shows that [math][2] \times [3] \equiv [0][/math]. By your own definition of the module no representation of [0] exists in [math]\mathbb{Z}/n \mathbb{Z} ^{\text{x}}[/math]. In case this isn't clear the set [math]\mathbb{Z}/n \mathbb{Z} ^{\text{x}} = \{ [1], [2], [3], [4], [5] \}[/math], so [0] is not a member of the set. This is in contrast to [math]\mathbb{Z}/ n \mathbb{Z}[/math] which does contain [0].

-Dan
 
topsquark said:
What don't you understand? The example shows that [math][2] \times [3] \equiv [0][/math]. By your own definition of the module no representation of [0] exists in [math]\mathbb{Z}/n \mathbb{Z} ^{\text{x}}[/math]. In case this isn't clear the set [math]\mathbb{Z}/n \mathbb{Z} ^{\text{x}} = \{ [1], [2], [3], [4], [5] \}[/math], so [0] is not a member of the set. This is in contrast to [math]\mathbb{Z}/ n \mathbb{Z}[/math] which does contain [0].

-Dan
Thanks for the clarification. I understand.
 
Cbarker1 said:
Sorry, I forget to define the set:
${\mathbb Z/n\mathbb Z}^{\times}=\left\{[a] \in{\mathbb Z/n\mathbb Z}^{\times}: GCD(a,n)=1 \right\}$
Ah, I get it. So we want to show that if $\gcd(a,n)=\gcd(b,n)=1$ then $\gcd(ab,n)=1$. That is exactly what the problem is asking – in simpler, non-group-theory language.

There are integers $r,s,t,u\in\mathbb Z$ such that
$$ra+sn\ =\ 1\ \cdots\ \fbox1 \\ tb+un\ =\ 1\ \cdots\ \fbox2.$$
From these, you want to get an equation of the form $Rab+Sn=1$, $R,S\in\mathbb Z$. Can you do that? Hint:
Multiply $\fbox1$ by $b$ and substitute for $b$ in $\fbox2$.
 
Erm... in group theory $(\mathbb Z/n\mathbb Z)^\times$ is the set $\mathbb Z/n\mathbb Z$ with the usual multiplication $\times$ and with all elements removed that do not have a multiplicative inverse, so that if forms a group.
So $(\mathbb Z/6\mathbb Z)^\times$ only has the elements $[1]$ and $[5]$. It is isomorphic to $(\mathbb Z/3\mathbb Z)^\times$, and also to $\mathbb Z/2\mathbb Z$ (with addition).So indeed, the problem asks to verify that $[ab]$ has a multiplicative inverse.
And it is already given that $[a]$ and $$ have multiplicative inverses.
We can call them $[a]^{-1}$ respectively $^{-1}$.
In the example $[5]^{-1}=[5]$ as we can see that $5\times 5 \bmod{6}=1$. Suppose we try $[ab]^{-1}=^{-1}\times[a]^{-1}$.
Then $[ab]\times[ab]^{-1}=[a]\times\times^{-1}\times[a]^{-1}=[1]$.
Therefore $[ab]$ has a multiplicative inverse and both are elements of $(\mathbb Z/n\mathbb Z)^\times$.
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Erm... in group theory the set $(\mathbb Z/n\mathbb Z)^\times$ is the set $\mathbb Z/n\mathbb Z$ with the usual multiplication $\times$ and with all elements removed that do not have a multiplicative inverse, so that if forms a group.
Yeah, I was thinking about that problem in the shower this morning. (I do my best thinking there. I need to get a girlfriend to rub lotion on my back!) Thanks for the catch.

-Dan
 

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