Can all open sets in R^n be expressed as countable union of open cubes?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter CantorSet
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Sets Union
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether all open sets in R^n can be expressed as a countable union of open cubes, specifically subsets of the form (a_1,b_1) × ... × (a_n, b_n). The scope includes theoretical considerations and mathematical reasoning related to open sets and their representations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that any open set in R^n can be expressed as a countable union of open intervals, suggesting that this can be extended to open cubes.
  • Another participant questions whether an open set can still be expressed as a countable union if it contains uncountably many points, raising concerns about the implications of uncountability.
  • A participant clarifies that when expressing an open set as a union of open cubes with rational endpoints, the result is indeed a countable union, due to the countability of rational numbers.
  • There is a discussion about the potential overlap of intervals when dealing with uncountable sets, indicating that multiple points in an open set may lead to the selection of the same interval.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of uncountably infinite points in open sets, and while some agree on the ability to represent open sets as countable unions, the discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of uncountability and its effects.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the nature of open sets and the definitions of countable unions, which are not fully explored in the discussion.

CantorSet
Messages
44
Reaction score
0
Hi everyone,

I came across a problem that requires knowing this fact.

But can any open set in R^n be expressed as the countable union of "cubes". That is subsets of the form (a_1,b_1) \times ... \times (a_n, b_n).
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Hi CantorSet! :smile:

The answer is yes! For notational purposes, I'll do this is one dimension, but multiple dimensions is quite analogous.

So, take G open, then around every x\in G, we can find an open interval such that

x\in ]a,b[\subseteq G

By shrinking the interval, we can assume the endpoints to be rational. Thus

G=\bigcup\{]a,b[~\vert~a,b\in \mathbb{Q},~]a,b[\subseteq G\}

We can even take the intervals/cubes to be disjoint, but that's somewhat more difficult...
 
Thanks for the response, micromass!

I see that we can express any open set as the union of open intervals. But can we express it as a countable union of open intervals. What if the number of points in G is uncountably infinite?

You mention that we can even use disjoint intervals. Would this guarantee the union is over countably many?
 
CantorSet said:
What if the number of points in G is uncountably infinite?

Doesn't the same proof apply regardless on the number of elements in G?
 
CantorSet, what micromass didn't mention is that when you write an open set as a union of open cubes with rational endpoints, then the result is a union of countably many sets. This is because there are only countably many cubes with rational endpoints (something you can prove for yourself probably). In his procedure, you have your open set G, a point x \in G, and then you choose an open interval, x \in ]a_x, b_x[ \in G. Then you shrink ]a_x, b_x[ to an interval with rational endpoints, say ]p_x, q_x[. If G is uncountable, and you do this for every x \in G, then since there are only countably many intervals with rational endpoints, it means that for many different x \neq y \in G, you'll have ended up choosing the same interval: p_x = p_y,\ q_x = q_y.
 
Got it. Thanks for the help, guys.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K