Can Crafts Reach 2c Relative to Me?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of relative velocities in the context of special relativity, specifically addressing whether two hypothetical crafts can appear to move apart at a speed greater than the speed of light (2c) from an observer's perspective on Earth. The scope includes theoretical reasoning and relativistic velocity addition.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
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Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that if two crafts take off at the speed of light in opposite directions, they would appear to be moving apart at 2c after one second from the observer's perspective.
  • Another participant agrees that the separation speed can be viewed as 2c but notes that a massive spacecraft cannot actually reach the speed of light in the observer's frame.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that the scenario is not possible as described, proposing instead that the crafts could be moving at speeds close to but less than c (e.g., 0.99c), leading to a separation speed of 2v, which is still less than 2c.
  • This participant also introduces the concept of relativistic velocity addition, stating that the relative speed between the two crafts would be calculated as 2v/(1+v^2), which remains less than c.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the initial scenario's feasibility and the implications of relativistic effects. There is no consensus on the correctness of the original claim regarding separation speed, as some participants challenge the premise while others provide alternative interpretations.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the assumption of crafts moving at the speed of light, which is not physically realizable for massive objects. The discussion also highlights the need for clarity in defining speeds and reference frames.

Abbott287287
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Separation speed
Simple question for you guys. Thanks in advance for the help.

If you are standing on earth with a watch and hypothetical crafts to your left and right instantly take off 180 degrees apart at the speed of light, at the 1 second mark on YOUR watch they will be 372,000 miles apart. From YOUR perspective, it seems they should be moving apart at 2c. You measure the distance they traveled at its exactly as above. You were stationary and your watch clicked one second. It seems they had to be moving apart at 2c, but that would be the upper limit as to how fast they can move away from each other from your perspective. No laws are being broken as each craft is moving at c, not above it. From each crafts perspective I know it would be totally different. Is this correct or not? If its wrong, please explain how.
VERY much appreciated!
 
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That's correct, the upper limit for separation speed is ##2c##. Note that a massive spacecraft can't actually reach ##c## in your reference frame, but can get arbitrarily close to ##c##.
 
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Much appreciated. Its being argued on a different forum. :smile:
 
Abbott287287 said:
and right instantly take off 180 degrees apart at the speed of light,
That’s not possible, but we can fix this without changing the basic sense of your question by specifying that their speed relative to you is not ##c## but something like ##.99c##.

If one is moving to left at speed ##v\lt c## and the other is moving to the right at the same speed, you will observe them separating at speed ##2v \lt 2c##.

However, their speed relative to one another will be ##2v/(1+v^2)## which is less than ##c##. Google for “relativistic velocity addition” to see how I get that result.

(And note that I am measuring time in seconds and distances in light-seconds so that ##c=1##. This is a handy and very common, almost universal, trick for not cluttering the equations up with a whole bunch of ##c## and ##c^2## factors)
 
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