Can e Be Defined as a Limit with n Approaching Negative Infinity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of defining the mathematical constant e as a limit when n approaches negative infinity, paralleling its traditional definition as a limit when n approaches positive infinity. Participants explore the algebraic manipulations and reasoning behind this proposition.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that e can be expressed as the limit of (1 + 1/n)^n as n approaches negative infinity, similar to its definition as n approaches positive infinity.
  • One participant references WolframAlpha, suggesting that the steps for the negative version of the limit are analogous to those for the positive version, although they note that detailed steps require a subscription.
  • Another participant provides a detailed algebraic verification, showing that if m is a negative integer (m = -n), the limit can be transformed and ultimately leads to the conclusion that it equals e.
  • There is a question raised about the necessity of the constraint n > 1 in the algebraic steps, with one participant asserting that while it is not crucial for the limit itself, it is necessary for the validity of their approach due to the presence of denominators.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the mathematical manipulations leading to the conclusion that e can be defined using limits approaching negative infinity, but there is a discussion regarding the constraints on n, indicating some uncertainty about the necessity of n > 1.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the behavior of limits and the validity of algebraic steps, particularly concerning the constraints on n. These aspects remain unresolved and are dependent on the definitions and conditions set by the participants.

PFuser1232
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I am familiar with the fact that the number e can be defined several ways. One particularly interesting definition is the one based on limits, namely:
e = limn \rightarrow ∞ (1 + \frac{1}{n})n
My question is: wouldn't it be equally true to express e as the limit of the expression above as n goes to NEGATIVE infinity?
 
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According to WolframAlpha, that is quite correct. The proof below is for positive infinity (WA won't show the step-by-step solution for the negative version unless I buy a pro subscription), but the steps are equally valid for negative infinity in this case.

limits-01.png


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"My question is: wouldn't it be equally true to express e as the limit of the expression above as n goes to NEGATIVE infinity?"

Yes it is. The verification is an exercise in algebra and exponent chasing.

If m is a negative integer then m = -n for a positive integer n. For n > 1 this gives

\begin{align*} \left(1 + \frac 1 m\right)^m &amp; = \left(1 - \frac 1 n \right)^{-n} = \left(\frac{n - 1}n\right)^{-n} \\<br /> &amp; = \left(\frac n {n-1}\right)^n = \left(\frac n {n-1}\right) \cdot \left(\frac n {n-1}\right)^{n-1} \\<br /> &amp; = \left(\frac n {n-1} \right) \cdot \left(\frac{n-1}{n-1} + \frac 1 {n-1}\right)^{n-1} \\<br /> &amp; = \left(\frac n {n-1} \right) \cdot \left( 1 + \frac 1 {n-1}\right)^{n-1} = A_n \cdot B_n \text{ (say)}<br /> \end{align*}<br />

Note that \lim_{m \to -\infty} \left(1 + \frac 1 m\right)^m equals \lim_{n \to \infty} \left(1 - \frac 1 n \right)^{-n}

Since
<br /> \begin{align*}<br /> \lim_{n \to \infty} \left( \frac n {n-1}\right) &amp; = 1 \\<br /> \text{and}\\<br /> \lim_{n \to \infty} \left(1 + \frac 1 {n-1}\right)^{n-1} &amp; = \lim_{n \to \infty} \left(1 + \frac 1 n%<br /> \right)^n = e<br /> \end{align*}<br />

putting everything together gives

<br /> \lim_{m \to -\infty} \left(1 + \frac 1 m\right)^m = \lim_{n \to \infty} \left(1 - \frac 1 n\right)^{-n} = e <br />
 
statdad said:
"My question is: wouldn't it be equally true to express e as the limit of the expression above as n goes to NEGATIVE infinity?"

Yes it is. The verification is an exercise in algebra and exponent chasing.

If m is a negative integer then m = -n for a positive integer n. For n &gt; 1 this gives

\begin{align*} \left(1 + \frac 1 m\right)^m &amp; = \left(1 - \frac 1 n \right)^{-n} = \left(\frac{n - 1}n\right)^{-n} \\<br /> &amp; = \left(\frac n {n-1}\right)^n = \left(\frac n {n-1}\right) \cdot \left(\frac n {n-1}\right)^{n-1} \\<br /> &amp; = \left(\frac n {n-1} \right) \cdot \left(\frac{n-1}{n-1} + \frac 1 {n-1}\right)^{n-1} \\<br /> &amp; = \left(\frac n {n-1} \right) \cdot \left( 1 + \frac 1 {n-1}\right)^{n-1} = A_n \cdot B_n \text{ (say)}<br /> \end{align*}<br />

Note that \lim_{m \to -\infty} \left(1 + \frac 1 m\right)^m equals \lim_{n \to \infty} \left(1 - \frac 1 n \right)^{-n}

Since
<br /> \begin{align*}<br /> \lim_{n \to \infty} \left( \frac n {n-1}\right) &amp; = 1 \\<br /> \text{and}\\<br /> \lim_{n \to \infty} \left(1 + \frac 1 {n-1}\right)^{n-1} &amp; = \lim_{n \to \infty} \left(1 + \frac 1 n%<br /> \right)^n = e<br /> \end{align*}<br />

putting everything together gives

<br /> \lim_{m \to -\infty} \left(1 + \frac 1 m\right)^m = \lim_{n \to \infty} \left(1 - \frac 1 n\right)^{-n} = e <br />

But why should we consider the constraint n>1? Isn't it enough to say n>0?
 
"But why should we consider the constraint n>1? Isn't it enough to say n>0?"

For the limit it doesn't matter. But for the steps in my approach to work I need n &gt; 1 because
of the introduction of the denominators of n - 1 .
 

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