Can Einstein-Chwolson rings be observed from a telescope on Earth?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the feasibility of observing Einstein-Chwolson rings from Earth using various types of telescopes. It explores the challenges posed by atmospheric conditions and compares the capabilities of radio and optical telescopes in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that atmospheric absorption and distortion may hinder the observation of faint images from Earth.
  • Others note that radio telescopes on Earth have successfully imaged Einstein rings, citing specific examples.
  • One participant mentions that optical telescopes can also observe these rings, referencing a recent discovery.
  • A question is raised regarding the sensitivity of radio telescopes compared to optical telescopes, particularly in relation to atmospheric conditions like clouds and water vapor.
  • Concerns are expressed about the requirements for high-powered telescopes to observe distant source galaxies, emphasizing the need for optimal locations with minimal light pollution.
  • Another participant provides a calculation comparing the light-gathering capabilities of the human eye to that of a large telescope, suggesting a significant difference in sensitivity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effectiveness of optical versus radio telescopes for observing Einstein rings, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach and the impact of atmospheric conditions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific atmospheric conditions, the variability in telescope sensitivity, and the assumptions made about the observational capabilities of different telescope types.

KurtLudwig
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TL;DR
Can Einstein-Chwolson rings be observed from a telescope on Earth or can they only be observed by the Hubbell telescope in space?
There may be too much absorption and distortion by the atmosphere of the faint images when viewed from Earth.
 
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It looks like radio telescopes on Earth can image them okay:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_ring

1611082242874.png
 
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Thanks for the link. I have read the article of the above link, and the observation of doctoral researcher Margharita Bettinelli.

Are radio telescopes more sensitive than optical telescopes since microwaves are less absorbed by clouds and water vapor in the air?

It must take a very high-powered reflective telescope to to see a source galaxy 8.5 billion light years from Earth. And it must be located on a mountain top in Chile where there is very little light pollution and water vapor in the atmosphere.
 
KurtLudwig said:
It must take a very high-powered reflective telescope...
Yup, if you consider a 'gain' factor 250 000 to 1 000 000 to be 'very high-powered.'

Depending on the individual, the pupil size when dark adapted is 4mm to 8mm.
(reference: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK381/)
If you calculate the light gathering area of the human pupil and the 4meter telescope, that's the ratio you get.

Just another tool that we 'Humans-the-tool-makers' have come up with.:oldbiggrin:

Cheers,
Tom
 
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