Can Energy Really Be Converted to Matter in Everyday Life?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of whether energy can be converted to mass (matter) in everyday life, particularly in the context of charging a phone battery and the implications of mass increase as described by E=mc². Participants explore the relationship between energy, mass, and matter, examining both theoretical and practical aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that energy stored in a system contributes to its mass, suggesting that terminology may affect the interpretation of energy conversion.
  • Others argue that charging a battery does not involve converting energy into matter, but rather that the mass increase is due to rearranging existing particles into different configurations.
  • One participant notes that mass is defined in the center-of-mass (COM) frame of reference, and without such a frame, only energy can be defined, as exemplified by photons.
  • Another participant discusses the concept of invariant mass and its conservation, particularly in systems involving photons and material objects, emphasizing that this is related to energy conservation rather than mass conservation.
  • Some contributions highlight that significant energy is required to create a measurable amount of mass, contrasting with the idea that a small amount of mass can produce a large amount of energy.
  • One participant mentions that most of the mass in the human body is derived from energy stored in quarks, rather than originating from the Higgs field.
  • There are discussions about the clarity of formulations regarding invariant mass and energy conservation, with some participants expressing concerns about potential misunderstandings.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether energy can be converted to mass in everyday life. Multiple competing views remain, particularly regarding the definitions of mass, energy, and their interrelations in practical scenarios.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific definitions of mass and energy, as well as the unresolved nature of how energy conversion is interpreted in different contexts, such as chemical reactions in batteries.

Ebi Rogha
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a) Can we convert energy to mass (matter) in every day life?

b) When we charge a phone battery, its mass (weight) increases according to E=mc2 . Does it mean we convert energy to matter? If not, how its mass increases?
 
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Ebi Rogha said:
a) Can we convert energy to mass (matter) in every day life?

b) When we charge a phone battery, its mass (weight) increases according to E=mc2 . Does it mean we convert energy to matter? If not, how its mass increases?
Yes, energy stored in a system contributes to its mass. Whether there is any conversion going on is a matter of terminology.
 
Ebi Rogha said:
a) Can we convert energy to mass (matter) in every day life?
Mass and matter are different things. Mass is a property of matter, but matter also has many other properties, such as spin and charge.

Ebi Rogha said:
When we charge a phone battery, its mass (weight) increases according to E=mc2 . Does it mean we convert energy to matter? If not, how its mass increases?
Charging a battery does not involve converting energy into matter. The mass of the battery is increased by rearranging the existing particles into a different internal configuration. The mass of the battery is not merely the sum of the masses of the particles but also depends on their configuration, so the mass of the battery changes without adding or removing particles (ideally) but simply by changing their configuration.
 
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Ebi Rogha said:
a) Can we convert energy to mass (matter) in every day life?

b) When we charge a phone battery, its mass (weight) increases according to E=mc2 . Does it mean we convert energy to matter? If not, how its mass increases?
Mass is defined as energy measured in COM frame of reference where total momentum is zero. If such COM system does not exist, there is no defined mass but energy, e.g. a photon.

An electron and a positron pair, we may say they are matter, is generated from two photons. These photons have energy and also mass because two photon have their COM frame of reference. Mass keep existing before and after the reaction. So we know when the final state has material, both energy and mass are conserved before and after. I do not think chemists would admit two photons are material.

When you charge battery chemical state of the battery changes. When you warm battery its molecules do more thermal motion.
Energy and mass increase in both. Although molecular configuration or motion change, the number of molecules do not change.
I do not think chemists say material increase in both the cases.

[EDIT]
> If such COM system does not exist, there is no defined mass but energy, e.g. a photon.
Though there is no such COM frame of reference, zero mass is assigned to a photon particle because its dispersion relation ##E=pc## is included in general relation ##E^2=p^2c^2+m^2c^4##.
 
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mitochan said:
Mass is defined as energy measured in COM frame of reference where total momentum is zero. If such COM system does not exist, there is no defined mass but energy, e.g. a photon.
That's rest mass. There is also invariant mass of a system, which is conserved generally - e.g. where the system consists of a material object and a photon, which is absorbed.
 
Ebi Rogha said:
a) Can we convert energy to mass (matter) in every day life?

b) When we charge a phone battery, its mass (weight) increases according to E=mc2 . Does it mean we convert energy to matter? If not, how its mass increases?
You need a lot of energy to create a significant amount of mass. You need very little mass to create a very large amount of energy (as evidenced by the atomic bombs). When measuring the mass of a system, for extremely accurate measurements it is necessary to take the energy into account.

Fun fact: Most of the mass in your body is just energy stored in the quarks in the protons and neutrons in the atoms that make you up. Most of your mass does not originate from the Higgs Field. Veritasium made a video about this.
 
PeroK said:
That's rest mass. There is also invariant mass of a system, which is conserved generally - e.g. where the system consists of a material object and a photon, which is absorbed.
I think that's formulated not very clearly and it may give rise to misunderstandings. What do you consider as the "invariant mass of the material object and a photon" other than the total energy in the center-of-mass frame (devided by ##c^2##), i.e., ##\sqrt{s}/c^2##, where ##s## is the Mandelstam variable. This COM energy is of course conserved in the absorption process. So what you call "conservation of invariant mass" is in fact nothing else than the conservation of energy.

In contradistinction to Newtonian physics there's no additional mass conservation law in relativistic physics. This is due to the different structure of the Poincare group in comparison to the Galileo group. While the Galileo group's Lie algebra has non-trivial central extensions, and only these non-trivial central extensions lead to a useful physical dynamics in non-relativistic quantum theory, mass is conserved non-relativistic quantum mechanics due to a superselection rule. The Poincare Lie algebra has no non-trivial central extensions and thus there's no mass superselection rule, and from the space-time symmetries you thus have only the 10 conserved quantities from the Noether theorem (energy, momentum, angular momentum, center-of-energy velocity from symmetry under temporal translations, spatial translations, rotations, and Lorentz boosts, respectively as the corresponding one-parameter subgroups).
 

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