Can entanglement swapping be explained without nonlocal influences?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of entanglement swapping, particularly focusing on whether it can be explained without invoking nonlocal influences. Participants explore the implications of entanglement swapping, where entangled particles that have never interacted become correlated through a joint measurement on other particles. The conversation touches on foundational concepts in quantum mechanics, locality, and the nature of reality as described by quantum states.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express that entanglement swapping creates correlations between particles that have never interacted, raising questions about how measurements on one pair can affect distant particles.
  • There is a suggestion that classical notions of locality are inadequate to explain these phenomena, leading to the consideration of nonlocal influences or alternative interpretations of quantum mechanics.
  • One viewpoint emphasizes that quantum mechanics should be understood in terms of states rather than classical particles, suggesting that classical intuitions may mislead our understanding of quantum phenomena.
  • Concerns are raised about the clarity of explanations regarding entanglement swapping, with a call for more than just restating the phenomenon or expressing uncertainty.
  • Another participant argues that the mathematical framework of quantum mechanics serves as the primary explanation, asserting that intuitive realism has been lost in modern physics.
  • There is a discussion about the acceptance of quantum mechanics as the best available theory, despite its unintuitive nature, and the implications of rejecting it in favor of more intuitive explanations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and validity of nonlocal influences in explaining entanglement swapping. While some lean towards accepting nonlocal states, others challenge the clarity and sufficiency of explanations that do not invoke such influences. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the adequacy of existing explanations and the nature of quantum mechanics.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in classical explanations and the challenges of reconciling quantum mechanics with intuitive understandings of locality and reality. The discussion reflects ongoing debates in the interpretation of quantum phenomena and the role of mathematics in understanding nature.

  • #31
Quick reflection on the book looking at chapter 12.

Peres writings is very good, I like them, but the "sharpness" still rests on a few concepts that conceptually take the "role" of the heisenberg cut, some of the keys are

"Consistency thus requires the measuring process to be irreversible. There are no superobservers
in our physical world
."
Peres, p366

This is course makes perfect sense, but I have a critical reflections

The notion of "reversibility" is plauged by the similar thing such as "randomness". While all someone can say is that: I have not means to predict, or i have not means to "control" and reverse, so the process I can observer seems "random" and "irreversible". Thus these concepts are dependent on the "capacity" of the "observing part". And its why it requires, there are no superobservers. But there are still observers of vastly different "capacity" to distinguish, encode and process their empirically accessible information. So the question of a scale independent notion of reversibility and timeless law is still fuzzy.

So the question of how the apparenty dynamical law, evolves with complexity here, is not sharpy addressed at all. But I think Peres is doing a decent job to be as sharp as possible.

/Fredrik
 
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  • #32
Fra said:
Quick reflection on the book looking at chapter 12.

Peres writings is very good, I like them, but the "sharpness" still rests on a few concepts that conceptually take the "role" of the heisenberg cut, some of the keys are

"Consistency thus requires the measuring process to be irreversible. There are no superobservers
in our physical world
."
Peres, p366

This is course makes perfect sense, but I have a critical reflections

The notion of "reversibility" is plauged by the similar thing such as "randomness". While all someone can say is that: I have not means to predict, or i have not means to "control" and reverse, so the process I can observer seems "random" and "irreversible". Thus these concepts are dependent on the "capacity" of the "observing part". And its why it requires, there are no superobservers. But there are still observers of vastly different "capacity" to distinguish, encode and process their empirically accessible information. So the question of a scale independent notion of reversibility and timeless law is still fuzzy.

So the question of how the apparenty dynamical law, evolves with complexity here, is not sharpy addressed at all. But I think Peres is doing a decent job to be as sharp as possible.

/Fredrik
I don't understand this. Sorry.
 
  • #33
Morbert said:
I don't understand this. Sorry.
I think I've only ever understood about two or three of Fra's posts!
 
  • Haha
Likes   Reactions: Demystifier, Fra and Sambuco

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